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	<title>Comments on: CAM and the Psychology of Last Resort</title>
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	<link>http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2009/08/cam-and-the-psychology-of-last-resort/</link>
	<description>A Vet Takes a Science-Based Look at Complementary and Alternative Medicine</description>
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		<title>By: Holistic Vet Asks, &#8220;IF CAM doesn&#8217;t work, why is it allowed?&#8221; &#171; The SkeptVet Blog</title>
		<link>http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2009/08/cam-and-the-psychology-of-last-resort/comment-page-1/#comment-1713</link>
		<dc:creator>Holistic Vet Asks, &#8220;IF CAM doesn&#8217;t work, why is it allowed?&#8221; &#171; The SkeptVet Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jun 2010 02:33:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?p=134#comment-1713</guid>
		<description>[...] Desperation-As I&#8217;ve discussed before, people facing an illness that cannot be effectively treated by scientific medicine will resort to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Desperation-As I&#8217;ve discussed before, people facing an illness that cannot be effectively treated by scientific medicine will resort to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Therapies to Soothe all Four Legs&#8211;From the NY Times &#171; The SkeptVet Blog</title>
		<link>http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2009/08/cam-and-the-psychology-of-last-resort/comment-page-1/#comment-912</link>
		<dc:creator>Therapies to Soothe all Four Legs&#8211;From the NY Times &#171; The SkeptVet Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 May 2010 23:12:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?p=134#comment-912</guid>
		<description>[...] they suspend critical thinking in favor of wishful thinking. I&#8217;ve talked before about the risks of such &#8220;last resort&#8221; use of CAM. It is understandable, but it doesn&#8217;t really help people or their [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] they suspend critical thinking in favor of wishful thinking. I&#8217;ve talked before about the risks of such &#8220;last resort&#8221; use of CAM. It is understandable, but it doesn&#8217;t really help people or their [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Doctor Indicted for Selling Bogus &#8220;Cure&#8221; to Cancer Patients &#171; The SkeptVet Blog</title>
		<link>http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2009/08/cam-and-the-psychology-of-last-resort/comment-page-1/#comment-261</link>
		<dc:creator>Doctor Indicted for Selling Bogus &#8220;Cure&#8221; to Cancer Patients &#171; The SkeptVet Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Oct 2009 19:31:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?p=134#comment-261</guid>
		<description>[...] discussed previously why it is both understandable that desperately ill people turn to unproven or bogus therapies and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] discussed previously why it is both understandable that desperately ill people turn to unproven or bogus therapies and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Gonzalez Trial &#8211; The Cost of Studying The Unlikely &#171; The SkeptVet Blog</title>
		<link>http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2009/08/cam-and-the-psychology-of-last-resort/comment-page-1/#comment-198</link>
		<dc:creator>The Gonzalez Trial &#8211; The Cost of Studying The Unlikely &#171; The SkeptVet Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 19:57:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?p=134#comment-198</guid>
		<description>[...] randomized, but most patients refused to accept random allocation to treatment groups). But as I&#8217;ve argued before, the understandable desperation of people in this situation does not justify giving them false hope [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] randomized, but most patients refused to accept random allocation to treatment groups). But as I&#8217;ve argued before, the understandable desperation of people in this situation does not justify giving them false hope [...]</p>
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		<title>By: skeptvet</title>
		<link>http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2009/08/cam-and-the-psychology-of-last-resort/comment-page-1/#comment-157</link>
		<dc:creator>skeptvet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 19:07:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?p=134#comment-157</guid>
		<description>Rita,

That certainly seems like a sound idea to me. Taking advantage of our natural &quot;Us vs them&quot; tribalism is certainly a time-honored manipulative strategy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rita,</p>
<p>That certainly seems like a sound idea to me. Taking advantage of our natural &#8220;Us vs them&#8221; tribalism is certainly a time-honored manipulative strategy.</p>
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		<title>By: Rita</title>
		<link>http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2009/08/cam-and-the-psychology-of-last-resort/comment-page-1/#comment-156</link>
		<dc:creator>Rita</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 18:32:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?p=134#comment-156</guid>
		<description>Good point made in the comments on Harriet Hall&#039;s post on Science Based medicine on CAM acceptance:

&quot;Humans have a strong desire to be “in the know,” to be members of an exclusive club. It’s a primate thing, and quacks know it, so they sell their wares by claiming that their treatment is special and different. Patient satisfaction with the belief that they’ve acquired special knowledge can be so potent that it is pretty much indistinguishable from treatment satisfaction. Such patients often give a hearty thumbs up to a treatment that didn’t actually solve their problem. Patients look me right in the eye and earnestly tell me, without irony, that such a treatment “worked” … even though they are asking for my help with unabated chronic pain! What it worked on was their ego alone&quot;.

The satisfaction with having esoteric knowledge is a strong motivation indeed (though I&#039;m far from suggesting it&#039;s the only one) - and, of course, CAM believers are often up for all sorts of other esoterisms, too, thus belonging to a whole series of exclusive clubs.  
So much enthusiasm is there for esoteric (i.e., shared amongst a chosen few) type knowledge here, that there is even an Esoteric Fair, open to all.......hmmmmmm.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good point made in the comments on Harriet Hall&#8217;s post on Science Based medicine on CAM acceptance:</p>
<p>&#8220;Humans have a strong desire to be “in the know,” to be members of an exclusive club. It’s a primate thing, and quacks know it, so they sell their wares by claiming that their treatment is special and different. Patient satisfaction with the belief that they’ve acquired special knowledge can be so potent that it is pretty much indistinguishable from treatment satisfaction. Such patients often give a hearty thumbs up to a treatment that didn’t actually solve their problem. Patients look me right in the eye and earnestly tell me, without irony, that such a treatment “worked” … even though they are asking for my help with unabated chronic pain! What it worked on was their ego alone&#8221;.</p>
<p>The satisfaction with having esoteric knowledge is a strong motivation indeed (though I&#8217;m far from suggesting it&#8217;s the only one) &#8211; and, of course, CAM believers are often up for all sorts of other esoterisms, too, thus belonging to a whole series of exclusive clubs.<br />
So much enthusiasm is there for esoteric (i.e., shared amongst a chosen few) type knowledge here, that there is even an Esoteric Fair, open to all&#8230;&#8230;.hmmmmmm.</p>
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		<title>By: v.t.</title>
		<link>http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2009/08/cam-and-the-psychology-of-last-resort/comment-page-1/#comment-155</link>
		<dc:creator>v.t.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 22:31:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?p=134#comment-155</guid>
		<description>Thank you for your insight, skeptvet, it helps to hear other points of view, and different approaches.  While it does seem better in some ways to try to understand the underlying rationale for their choices, I confess, my frustration prevents me from seeing that FIRST.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for your insight, skeptvet, it helps to hear other points of view, and different approaches.  While it does seem better in some ways to try to understand the underlying rationale for their choices, I confess, my frustration prevents me from seeing that FIRST.</p>
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		<title>By: skeptvet</title>
		<link>http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2009/08/cam-and-the-psychology-of-last-resort/comment-page-1/#comment-154</link>
		<dc:creator>skeptvet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 01:46:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?p=134#comment-154</guid>
		<description>V.T.,

Well, it seems to me thatCAM use falls into a few categories:
1. Ideologically driven-hard core believers who think science is on the wrong track alltogether or think the underlying philosophy of naturalism is bunk.

2. The misinformed-people who are smart and reasonable but have not the information or the skills to see through CAM marketing and the common logical fallacies and cognitive blindspots that lie behind it

3. The manipulated-those who have been convinced by fear and lies or by the unscrupulous

I don&#039;t see any point in blaming any of these people or in being unecessarily unkind or uncivil. I have great respect for many individuals who happen to believe things I consider to be nonsense, and I take the approach of agreeing to disagree. Apart from the outright delusional, such as Eric Weisman, or the deliberately deceitful, I try not to approach my relationship with users or providers of CAM in a antagonistic, good guy/bad guy sort of way. It isn&#039;t productive, for one thing, and it is usually an oversimplification.

Now, I do get angry when I see pets suffering from the misconceptions of their owners, whether related to CAM or not, and I do see part of my job as advocating for the well-being of the patient if the owner&#039;s interests seem inconsistent with what is best for the pet. And it does seem unethical to me when we use bogus therapies to treat the owners rather than the patients. This is a not unusual dilemma in our profession, and I don&#039;t have a perfect answer, but I try to approach it in as constructive a way as possible, since alienating the client certainly isn&#039;t going to help the pet in any way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>V.T.,</p>
<p>Well, it seems to me thatCAM use falls into a few categories:<br />
1. Ideologically driven-hard core believers who think science is on the wrong track alltogether or think the underlying philosophy of naturalism is bunk.</p>
<p>2. The misinformed-people who are smart and reasonable but have not the information or the skills to see through CAM marketing and the common logical fallacies and cognitive blindspots that lie behind it</p>
<p>3. The manipulated-those who have been convinced by fear and lies or by the unscrupulous</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t see any point in blaming any of these people or in being unecessarily unkind or uncivil. I have great respect for many individuals who happen to believe things I consider to be nonsense, and I take the approach of agreeing to disagree. Apart from the outright delusional, such as Eric Weisman, or the deliberately deceitful, I try not to approach my relationship with users or providers of CAM in a antagonistic, good guy/bad guy sort of way. It isn&#8217;t productive, for one thing, and it is usually an oversimplification.</p>
<p>Now, I do get angry when I see pets suffering from the misconceptions of their owners, whether related to CAM or not, and I do see part of my job as advocating for the well-being of the patient if the owner&#8217;s interests seem inconsistent with what is best for the pet. And it does seem unethical to me when we use bogus therapies to treat the owners rather than the patients. This is a not unusual dilemma in our profession, and I don&#8217;t have a perfect answer, but I try to approach it in as constructive a way as possible, since alienating the client certainly isn&#8217;t going to help the pet in any way.</p>
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		<title>By: Bartimaeus</title>
		<link>http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2009/08/cam-and-the-psychology-of-last-resort/comment-page-1/#comment-153</link>
		<dc:creator>Bartimaeus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 01:32:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?p=134#comment-153</guid>
		<description>I get to have this kind of conversation first thing tomorrow AM. Client with dog with osteosarcoma, who cannot for various reasons go the the specialist 3 hours (one way) away on a regular basis, and is interested in the mushroom &quot;immune modulator&quot; she found online with lots of glowing testimonials. (sigh)

I may have to post about that-it seems there is a new form of woo every time you turn around. Thanks DSHEA.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I get to have this kind of conversation first thing tomorrow AM. Client with dog with osteosarcoma, who cannot for various reasons go the the specialist 3 hours (one way) away on a regular basis, and is interested in the mushroom &#8220;immune modulator&#8221; she found online with lots of glowing testimonials. (sigh)</p>
<p>I may have to post about that-it seems there is a new form of woo every time you turn around. Thanks DSHEA.</p>
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		<title>By: v.t.</title>
		<link>http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2009/08/cam-and-the-psychology-of-last-resort/comment-page-1/#comment-152</link>
		<dc:creator>v.t.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 00:22:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?p=134#comment-152</guid>
		<description>What about your (veterinary) clients who opt for alt med based only on what they hear from family, friends or dubious online sources, particularly those who were easily swayed by fear-mongering and propaganda (nutrition and vaccination for example)?   I&#039;d like to think those owners would have a hard time treating themselves or their children for that matter, with useless CAM, yet think nothing of applying the nonsense to their pets.   

Sometimes I wonder if it&#039;s simply a control issue, the pet can&#039;t speak out against the treatment and the owner gets the benefit of being in control of a treatment they can convince themselves is useful.  I&#039;m not referring to terminal disease, but common conditions that can be prevented, easily treatable and managed appropriately with science-based medicine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What about your (veterinary) clients who opt for alt med based only on what they hear from family, friends or dubious online sources, particularly those who were easily swayed by fear-mongering and propaganda (nutrition and vaccination for example)?   I&#8217;d like to think those owners would have a hard time treating themselves or their children for that matter, with useless CAM, yet think nothing of applying the nonsense to their pets.   </p>
<p>Sometimes I wonder if it&#8217;s simply a control issue, the pet can&#8217;t speak out against the treatment and the owner gets the benefit of being in control of a treatment they can convince themselves is useful.  I&#8217;m not referring to terminal disease, but common conditions that can be prevented, easily treatable and managed appropriately with science-based medicine.</p>
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