Comments on: Dr. Shawn Messonier Disses the SkeptVet http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2010/01/dr-shawn-messonier-disses-the-skeptvet/ A Vet Takes a Science-Based Look at Complementary and Alternative Medicine Mon, 21 May 2012 05:06:21 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: skeptvet http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2010/01/dr-shawn-messonier-disses-the-skeptvet/comment-page-1/#comment-39749 skeptvet Sun, 02 Oct 2011 14:49:34 +0000 http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?p=307#comment-39749 Where to start? First off, "traditional Western medicine" is the humoral medicine of Galen and the other Greeks, about balancing humors, and <a href="http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2011/06/from-bloodletting-to-evidence-based-medicine-by-dr-brad-hanna/" rel="nofollow">here's</a> a nice summary of how it came to be repalced by scientific medicine, which works much better. The fact that organisms are complex is why understanding them is difficult and progress in medical knowledge is slow. It is also why the simplistic fairy tales so often offered in "holistic" approaches are so silly. What you are really selling here is a religion. People are supposed to believe what you believe without any evidence except that you believe it, and if they don't they are spiritually "sick." I have read lots of Dr. Shawn's writing, and responded to much of it ehre, and they do not offer real scientific evidence but simply lots of opinions buried in a distracting blizzard of references to research that doesn't actally prove the caims being made. You are free to believe what you like, but it is arrogant to assume that anyone who disagrees with you has something wrong with them. dmitting that intelligent people can honestly and reasonably disagree, and considering the possibility you might even be wrong sometimes, apparently requires a humility and open-mindedness you do not possess. Where to start? First off, “traditional Western medicine” is the humoral medicine of Galen and the other Greeks, about balancing humors, and here’s a nice summary of how it came to be repalced by scientific medicine, which works much better. The fact that organisms are complex is why understanding them is difficult and progress in medical knowledge is slow. It is also why the simplistic fairy tales so often offered in “holistic” approaches are so silly. What you are really selling here is a religion. People are supposed to believe what you believe without any evidence except that you believe it, and if they don’t they are spiritually “sick.” I have read lots of Dr. Shawn’s writing, and responded to much of it ehre, and they do not offer real scientific evidence but simply lots of opinions buried in a distracting blizzard of references to research that doesn’t actally prove the caims being made.

You are free to believe what you like, but it is arrogant to assume that anyone who disagrees with you has something wrong with them. dmitting that intelligent people can honestly and reasonably disagree, and considering the possibility you might even be wrong sometimes, apparently requires a humility and open-mindedness you do not possess.

]]> By: Hugh http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2010/01/dr-shawn-messonier-disses-the-skeptvet/comment-page-1/#comment-39583 Hugh Fri, 30 Sep 2011 23:40:32 +0000 http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?p=307#comment-39583 Holistic healthcare is exactly what it says, the best of all worlds. Saying traditional western medicine is the only alternative to healthcare, or that american pharmaceuticals are the only way to health is an ancient argument created by limited cognitive function. To me an organism is so complex that our "modern medicine" has only grazed the surface of healing modalities, and every possible solution should be stringently considered. I think anyone who has battled cancer or similar health difficulties wants to use everything under their power to get back to ultimate health and well-being. If you want scientific evidence, read Dr. Shawn's books with your questions intact. However, if you choose to believe the traditional ways are always true, your sickness is much greater than any physical ailment. Holistic healthcare is exactly what it says, the best of all worlds. Saying traditional western medicine is the only alternative to healthcare, or that american pharmaceuticals are the only way to health is an ancient argument created by limited cognitive function. To me an organism is so complex that our “modern medicine” has only grazed the surface of healing modalities, and every possible solution should be stringently considered. I think anyone who has battled cancer or similar health difficulties wants to use everything under their power to get back to ultimate health and well-being. If you want scientific evidence, read Dr. Shawn’s books with your questions intact. However, if you choose to believe the traditional ways are always true, your sickness is much greater than any physical ailment.

]]> By: Holistic Vet Asks, “IF CAM doesn’t work, why is it allowed?” « The SkeptVet Blog http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2010/01/dr-shawn-messonier-disses-the-skeptvet/comment-page-1/#comment-1710 Holistic Vet Asks, “IF CAM doesn’t work, why is it allowed?” « The SkeptVet Blog Thu, 17 Jun 2010 02:29:18 +0000 http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?p=307#comment-1710 [...] certain “holistic” veterinarian about whom I’ve written before (here, here, here, and—well, you get the idea) has asked a couple of good questions on his own [...] [...] certain “holistic” veterinarian about whom I’ve written before (here, here, here, and—well, you get the idea) has asked a couple of good questions on his own [...]

]]> By: More Hypocritical Nonsense about “Healthcare Choice” « The SkeptVet Blog http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2010/01/dr-shawn-messonier-disses-the-skeptvet/comment-page-1/#comment-432 More Hypocritical Nonsense about “Healthcare Choice” « The SkeptVet Blog Sun, 14 Feb 2010 20:01:17 +0000 http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?p=307#comment-432 [...] veterinary medicine by lying about scientific medicine and veterinarians who practice it (e.g. Here, Here, and Here). The latest example of this behavior is also a fine example of the bogus CAM [...] [...] veterinary medicine by lying about scientific medicine and veterinarians who practice it (e.g. Here, Here, and Here). The latest example of this behavior is also a fine example of the bogus CAM [...]

]]> By: skeptvet http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2010/01/dr-shawn-messonier-disses-the-skeptvet/comment-page-1/#comment-357 skeptvet Fri, 22 Jan 2010 05:47:12 +0000 http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?p=307#comment-357 Yes, clearly debate of any substance is impossible with this sort. He has all the faith in his own rightness and righteousness of the fanatical true believer, and in his view criticism is never justified and need not be addressed on its merits but must simply be attacked and charicatured. Note my followup post, in which he deletes my response to his first post and then writes another tarring all "skeptical veterinarians" with the same ludicrous bursh he applied to me originally. Yes, clearly debate of any substance is impossible with this sort. He has all the faith in his own rightness and righteousness of the fanatical true believer, and in his view criticism is never justified and need not be addressed on its merits but must simply be attacked and charicatured. Note my followup post, in which he deletes my response to his first post and then writes another tarring all “skeptical veterinarians” with the same ludicrous bursh he applied to me originally.

]]> By: Bartimaeus http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2010/01/dr-shawn-messonier-disses-the-skeptvet/comment-page-1/#comment-355 Bartimaeus Fri, 22 Jan 2010 03:24:25 +0000 http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?p=307#comment-355 Kind of funny how often the same types of irrelevant arguments and logical fallacies come up. Dr. Crisler (male hormone replacement guru) tried to excuse palMD of bloging under a pseudonym last week, despite the fact that his "nym" is his initials, and it takes all of about 5 seconds to figure it out. Perhaps Dr. Messioner should be careful-it seems his mid is so open his brain is in danger of falling out. ;-) These ridiculous reactions to reasoned criticism make me wonder how much of the reaction is due to the questioning of ideas and how much is to the threat to the income derived from woo. Of course it is impossible to know another person's true motivations, but it is all too common to see intellectually lazy products from the "holistic" crowd. Sad really, and in the end a disservice to their clients and themselves. whether they see it that way or not. Kind of funny how often the same types of irrelevant arguments and logical fallacies come up. Dr. Crisler (male hormone replacement guru) tried to excuse palMD of bloging under a pseudonym last week, despite the fact that his “nym” is his initials, and it takes all of about 5 seconds to figure it out. Perhaps Dr. Messioner should be careful-it seems his mid is so open his brain is in danger of falling out. ;-)

These ridiculous reactions to reasoned criticism make me wonder how much of the reaction is due to the questioning of ideas and how much is to the threat to the income derived from woo. Of course it is impossible to know another person’s true motivations, but it is all too common to see intellectually lazy products from the “holistic” crowd. Sad really, and in the end a disservice to their clients and themselves. whether they see it that way or not.

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