What we need is a online BS meter so we can tell who is really BS-ing who.

Paul Pion on 04/30/2002 10:50:47 am ET Art,Here you go again — full of BS –

art malernee dvm
fla lic 1820

v.t.,

I think there is a big problem with the vet profession no challenging the legitimacy of CAM. I have plenty of theories about why, but I don’t have any real data, and I doubt there is a single, simple answer. On an individual level, many vets are neutral on the merits of the approaches, taking the all-too-common “Well, it might or might not work but at least it’s harmless” attitude. They are simply too overwhelmed, apathetic, or lazy to look into whether or not their assumptions about safetu and possible efficacy are true.
And, as you say, explaining to a client why chiropractic is not going to help their dog when the client uses it themselves and believes it works is an unpleasant task. I have such conversations with clients every day, but I understand why other vets may simply find it too uncomfortable or draining to tilt at the windmills I have chosen to battle.
As a profession, our lobbies and organizations, particularly the AVMA, don’t have the will or the motivation to try and supervise in any way the scientific legitimacy of the therapies individual doctors employ. For one thing, there are enough believers and fence sitters that as a practical matter you could never push through any policies with teeth on CAM therapies. And ultimately, AVMA is more concerned with protecting the profession’s turf than getting involved in controversial campaigns against CAM. And let’s not forget what happened to the AMA when they took on the chiropractors decades ago-a stiging defeat in a restraint-of-trade lawsuit that sucked the force right out of any notion that doctors’ organizations could try to control what was or was not considered legitimate medicine.
Art would undoubtedly say simple greed is another factor, and I can’t say he’s wrong, though I’m not convinced it’s as powerful or pervasive motive for not challenging CAM as some of the others.

if the Aug3 post of mine does not pass moderation in the next few days those wanting to read what I posted can find it on this webpage using the google Sidewiki software
see
http://www.google.com/sidewiki/intl/en/index-chrome.html#tbbrand=
art malernee dvm
fla lic 1820

Dear

The altvetskept list was conceived and is maintained by members of the
veterinary medical Profession. Although the list is “open” to ANYONE for
discussion pertaining to the SUBJECT NATURE for which the list was set up,
we are not prepared to tolerate irrelevant and on-going posts of a nature
that is unnecessarily abusive to either our profession or other members of
the list.

You have repeatedly used our list to make your point about vaccines,
however, you have also used the list as a forum to make unsubstantiated and
abusive allegations about members of the veterinary profession. In
addition, you have elected to ignore specific requests to elucidate your
positions and/or for evidence to support your allegations.

One of the primary goals of this list has been and continues to be to
emphasize that medical/veterinary medical “claims” are well supported by
evidence and that those people making “claims” should be required to called
to task to support them (and not simply ignore requests for specific
clarification). This can be done without resorting to attacks on your
colleagues, and without repetitive posts about what you feel list members
should or should not do. Please advise if you are prepared to submit your
posts for review prior to seeing them on the list for a probationary period,
otherwise, we appreciate your interest but regret that you cannot abide by
rules of list decorum.

Sincerely,
Philip Johnson
On behalf of the
Management of the ALTVETSKEPT-LIST

Art Malernee dvm
fla lic 1820

That does not surprise me but I cannot find any of Dr Ramey’s post about that in my files. Some science based reporter needs to develop a list of SBM/EBM vets who were kicked off VIN and interview them about getting the boot from Paul Pion before they all die.

And you’re right, I’m not naive to believe my little neck of the woods is special, nor am I, but just wanted to share that there ARE indeed EBM, SBM-minded, critical thinking techs out there! The VIN section for techs I mentioned was just an example of how far out there things can get though, without any supervision, challenge, oversight. To hear them, you would think they were practicing without their employers’ knowledge, now that’s a scary thought.