10 responses

  1. Bartimaeus
    August 24, 2009

    From the references you provided for the various vitamins and some new work published in Nature last week (http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nature08268.html) a lot of evidence is building that some reasonable level of micro nutrients is necessary for good health, but excessive amounts are either unnecessary or even harmful.
    The money quote from that link;

    “These data…raise the possibility that antioxidants may have dichotomous activities with respect to tumorigenesis-that is, suppressing tumorigenesis by preventing oxidative damage to DNA, and promoting tumorigenesis by allowing survival of cells that are metabolically impaired. …Lastly, randomised trials have demonstrated both anti-neoplastic and neoplastic effects of antioxidants, with neoplastic effects associated with patients at higher risk owing to smoking and alcohol consumption, or patients undergoing chemo- or radiation therapy. Our work provides a biological rationale for these findings, as antioxidant activity may promote the survival of pre-initiated tumor cells in unnatural matrix environments and thus enhance malignancy.”

    It seems that some of the patients who are at the highest risk emotionally to the promoters of orthomolecular medicine and similar treatments are those who are most likely to suffer the unwanted effects of excess levels of vitamins and antioxidants.

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  2. skeptvet
    August 25, 2009

    Absolutely! Thanks for pulling that quote out of the study. It illustrates exactly the no-free-lunch-in-physiology principle that CAM proponents can’t seem to accept.Everything has a downside, every benefit comes with risks, and this is just as true of those rare CAM therapies that actuallly do something as it is of mainstream scientific medicine.

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  3. Rita
    August 27, 2009

    Whilst we’re on the subject of vitamins, what’s the story on vitamin D, exposure to sunlight and animals? So many animals are kept indoors – pets in flats, (dogs often walked at night, or in less-than-sunny places) horses in boxes (exercised outdoors, but often not for long, and somtimes not every day) etc (I assume factory farmed animals are supplemented) – is there any stuff about on this?

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  4. skeptvet
    August 27, 2009

    Dogs and cats have very inefficient activation of Vitamin D by UV light in their skin due to an enzyme which interferes with the process. It makes sense since, under normal conditons, very little UV light would get through their coats anyway, so such a process wouldn’t be reliable. They need to get their Vit D from diet. Not sure about horses and cattle, as it’s outside my field, but I would guess the same is true of haired mammals generally. Here are a couple of papers on the subject.

    Morris JG. Ineffective vitamin D synthesis in cats is reversed by an inhibitor of 7-dehydrocholestrol-delta7-reductase. J Nutr. 1999 Apr;129(4):903-8.

    Similar info for dogs:
    Hazewinkel, H.A.W., How, K. L., Bosch, R., Goedegebuure, S. A. & Voorhout, G. (1987) Inadequate photosynthesis of vitamin D in dogs. In Nutrition, Malnutrition, and Dietetics in the Dog and Cat. Proceedings of an international symposium held at Hanover, Sept 3 to 4 1987. English edition edited by A.T.B. Edney, published by British Veterinary Association in collaboration with the Waltham Centre for Pet Nutrition.

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  5. Rita
    August 28, 2009

    Many thanks for the reply – I wonder if it applies to pigs, who are not notably hairy (although wild boars are, of course) and rather wish to protect themselves from the sun with mud etc…………..

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  6. Austin
    April 13, 2017

    You’re using dogs to refute the benefits of vitamin C? Do you realize dogs produce their own vitamin C? Do you know in what amounts they do so when healthy? When sick?

    Reply

    • skeptvet
      April 19, 2017

      When people claim benefits for Vit C supplementation in dogs, it is necessary to evaluate claims for these benefits in dogs. As you point out, humans (and guinea pigs) are exceptions among mammals in not being able to synthesize Vit C, so there is even less reason to believe dramatic benefits will be obtained by supplementing it. As of now, the evidence for such benefits is non-existent in dogs and very weak for humans, though there is some interesting, though preliminary, research involving thiamine and Vit C and steroid combinations for sepsis in people.

      Reply

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