6 responses

  1. Aign0r
    December 10, 2017

    Hi, first I have to say I love your blog, you have some very good content. I am also a veterinarian trying to be as evidence based as possible, though when it comes to nutrition particularly I have troubles coming to peace with some of the research coming from Veterinary nutritional researchers. My distrust comes mostly from the influence I know pet food industry has on veterinarians in general, and is additionally fed by all the recent developments in research of human nutriton, and how for 50 years we’ve been lied (I say lied because we now know sugar industry bought scientist to push their agenda) that sugar is great and fat is bad, when it turns to be other way around. Don’t get me wrong I’m not against dry food, I’ve had 20 cats in my lifetime and many more fosters that ended up adopted by someone else and all of them ate kibble almost exclusively, and none of them had any issues, what so ever let alone diabetes. However I can’t wrap my head around something the us vets do every day which is give contrary advice to human nutritional science, which I think we’ll agree is far more advanced, especially regarding refined and processed foods. Almost every modern nutritional guideline tells us to avoid processed foods like the plague, but we do exact opposite for our patients.
    I would really like to hear your thoughts on these issues, I’ll understand if you don’t want to speculate publicly about this given that contents of your blog are some the least speculative I’ve ever seen. But if you’d like to share your thoughts on this with me hit me up on email, I’d like to hear opinion from someone as thoughtful as you are.
    Keep up the good work, really appreciate your work!

    Reply

    • skeptvet
      December 10, 2017

      Thanks for the comment and very good question. I’m happy to speculate, so long as I make it clear that’s all I’m doing here. 🙂

      One problem with your question, I think, is the definition of “processed food.” In human nutrition, this refers to packaged convenience foods and fast food, which are designed and marketed to appeal in terms of taste, appearance, and so on, and which are not intended to be nutritionally balanced or healthy as the predominant food source. Fresh fruits and vegetables, whole grains, reasonable amounts of lean meat and other animal products, fish, etc are recommended as a healthier diet because there is good evidence this diet actually is healthier. There is also, unfortunately, good evidence that simply telling people this doesn’t bring about healthy eating habits. We are evolutionarily primed to seek sugar, salt, fat, and other foods that were scarce in the environment in which our species evolved and which, now, are all too plentiful. The trick for humans, is finding a way to make people eat a nutritionally balanced diet that limits the very things we find most appealing in foods, and we haven’t found a very effective way to do this yet.

      In veterinary medicine, commercial diets are designed and produced quite differently than human convenience foods. They are specifically designed to be balanced and complete nutrition, and there is a fair bit of research showing they are adequate and able to support a long, healthy life. There is much we don’t know, of course, and there is undoubtedly a risk of bias in industry-funded research. However, the best evidence so far supports these as diets that allow a long, healthy life for many pets.

      Now, are these diets optimal? Who knows? I absolutely believe our existing knowledge is incomplete, and we will undoubtedly continue to improve pet nutrition. It is certainly possible that fresh diets similar to what is recommended for humans (with some significant differences related to our very different evolutionary history and nutritional requirements) may be better than commercial diets. Unlike in humans, however, we don’t yet have any direct evidence to show this is true. And we do know that many homemade diets out there lack nutritional adequacy over the long term. If we tell people to replace commercial diets with homemade diets, might we not end up with most people feeding something inferior to what they do now? We can’t know what exactly to tell them to feed until we have research evidence comparing commercial and fresh diets and looking at long-term health outcomes, as has been done in humans. And we still have to consider the possibility that even if we have a better homemade diet to offer, people might end up feeding diets that are convenient, inexpensive, and not actually healthy or appropriate, as humans often do for ourselves even though we have a pretty good idea what we should be eating.

      Overall, I’m somewhat sympathetic to the hypothesis that fresh diets might be better than existing commercial diets. But I think existing diets are a lot better than critics generally admit, and I think we need to develop evidence-based guidelines for what a healthy homemade diet is before we discourage people from feeding commercial diets for which we do have a lot of evidence to support nutritional adequacy.

      Reply

  2. Aign0r
    December 11, 2017

    Thanks for the replay, my definition was definitely off, since I didn’t consider general definition but what I mean by processed foods, being foods which are full of preservatives, and other additives some of which have been proven to have detrimental health effects on humans, though most of these are usually only found in low quality foods, and my bigger concern with these foods is loss of nutritional value through these processes and storage, since air in a big city probably has more toxins and carcinogens than even the worst kind of processed food available.

    That aside I agree with most of what you wrote, but In my research into human nutrition I have come to believe that “balanced” diet is kind of a red haring, meaning that proper nutrition in humans seems to be highly individual thing. Many people thrive and are healthier on unconventional diets like keto, vegan, even full carnivorous, while others crash and burn on them, and none of these would fit definition of “balanced” diet, not too mention that most dietary recommendations date back to 50s and 60s and haven’t changed since.
    This is a recent finding for me and I’ve been thinking about pet nutrition in the same light, and I haven’t been able to find (maybe i haven’t looked hard enough) who, when, how and in which breeds, determined what “balanced” diet is. Also that longevity study from PURINA didn’t really fill me with confidence… whilst 13,5 years isn’t a bad lifespan for a Labrador, the fact that none of 48 dogs lived longer then that is somewhat worrying to me.
    I feel like we’re being fed bunch of ringers from the industry to keep as at bay and keep selling their products. Especially in light of recent evidence that human food industries have done exactly that in the last 70 years.

    Reply

    • skeptvet
      December 11, 2017

      Well, I don’t think you are likely to find evidence for what an optimal diet is in particular breeds because I don’t think it exists. It is a very complex subject that requires difficult, lengthy, and expensive research. There is considerable uncertainty about many nutrition issues in humans, and this is with epidemiologic studies in thousands of people lasting decades. Not likely we will ever have the same quality of evidence in our field.

      I would be interested in what specific additives you are concerned about. I certainly haven’t investigated them all, but whenever I have looked into the evidence for specific flavorings or colors or preservatives people are concerned about, I have yet to find convincing evidence of harm. Usually, the concern is a media-based extrapolation from lab animal studies that don’t reflect real-world exposure.

      I think your concerns about the bias in the info we get from industry is valid. However, it begs the question of what information we have that is more reliable. Most of the alternatives recommended to commercial diets are just made up based on the particular ideology or bias of the person inventing the alternative (e.g. BARF), and they have even less reliable evidence to support health claims than exists for commercial diets. It’s a bit of a bind in terms of making specific recommendations to clients.

      Reply

  3. Elizabeth Clark
    April 10, 2018

    So pleased to discover this. Very interesting. Over a lifetime have given homes to many cats and dogs. Been intrested and tried raw, semi raw and homemade with correct supplements. At the end of the day, I find a bit of a mix works pretty well. Mostly grain free canned food, try and get those with less water and thickening agents, a little raw now and then, some cooked now and then. Better quality dry food with less carbs and more protein content. Do not feed out of plastic, low dust litter. Pets get outdoors in safe compound. Most have lived long lives, even one cat with EPI.

    As has been commented upon. Genetics, good shelter and care all count for animals as with humans. I recall a time in the UK as a child just after the war ended, when human food was still scarce. Dogs got entrails to eat, that smelled foul when cooked, but the dogs loved the stuff. Cats generally had a diet high in mice and scraps. Unless they got run over, a d not too many cars then, they fared pretty well… My gran had a cat that lived to be twenty.

    I am ovo /fish feeder myself not liking to eat mammals, but do eat the occasional fowl, I have a rule eat only what you would be prepared to kill yourself and things that have been kept and or killed humanly. Depends on what I can afford and ditto for feeding the pets. Do the best one can. We have been pet free for the last three years, but tlmlrrow two cats are joining our family, so I am so grateful for the time you take to write your opinions. Thanks.

    Reply

  4. Jacob
    June 7, 2023

    The thing with normal weight showing diet associations with DM risk seems to have a straightforward explanation (although like the rest of this study, it’s more informed speculation than anything else). Owners must assess their cat’s weight, but many will say it is normal when this is not the case. Those feeding dry are more likely to have an overweight cat (my speculation) and are therefore especially likely to be wrong about the normal classification. These fatter cats are more likely to have DM because of course being a fat cat is the best predictor of getting DM.

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