When I first heard of Pox Parties, I found it amazing, and frightening, that people actually fear vaccines so much that they will deliberately expose their children to infectious disease to avoid them. Such parents take their children to play with others who have active infections, or even mail infectious material to each other to expose their children (which is illegal as well as stupid).
It is true that some children exposed in this manner will develop a protective immunity. Some will also have to endure an active infection, which for those of us old enough to have experience can dimly recall is very unpleasant. And a small umber of these children will experience serious, even life-threatening or permanently disabling injury from these infections. Given the well-demonstrated and remarkable safety and effectiveness of vaccines, there is simply no excuse other than ignorance and irrational fear for this behavior.
I was somewhat surprised to see recently that some veterinarians are apparently recommending a version of the Pox Party for dogs in order to avoid vaccinating for parvovirus and canine distemper, two common and very serious infectious diseases. I was not, however, surprised that these veterinarians were homeopaths.
An article by Dr. Will Falconer (about whose bizarre and dangerous view of medicine I have written before here, here, and here) and posted on the Facebook page for the Academy of Veterinary Homeopathy, shares the “exciting” news about how to avoid evil vaccines for parvo and distemper.
Imagine avoiding risky vaccinations while getting very strong immune protection against parvo and distemper, the two potentially deadly diseases of puppies.
You know vaccinations are grossly over provided in our broken system of veterinary medicine. The pushing of vaccinations by Dr. WhiteCoat throughout your animal’s life doesn’t add to her immunity…And you know that vaccines are harmful. Chronic disease often follows vaccination, even a single vaccination.
Despite his assumption that his readers share his understanding about the devastating consequences of vaccination, Dr. Falconer is actually completely deluded on this point. While vaccines have risks, like any medical therapy with any effects at all, they also have benefits, and the two must be balanced against one another. Vaccination has greatly reduced, and in some cases completely eliminated infectious diseases that afflicted humanity and caused enormous suffering and death for millennia, and the risks have proven to be surprisingly few in light of the enormous benefits.
Vaccine protocols are changing in veterinary medicine in recognition that these therapies provide even greater protection than once thought and do not need to be given as often as they traditionally have been. However, no reasonable veterinarian, and no legitimate scientific evidence, supports these kinds of hysterical claims about the dangers of vaccination or the idea that they can or should be entirely avoided.
The alternative Dr. Falconer and his colleagues propose to vaccination for parvovirus and distemper is further illustration of a truly astounding level of delusion and ignorance of history:
A lecture on parvo by Dr. Todd Cooney lit us up, as he showed us statistics from his homeopathic practice in Indiana that the vaccinated pups had less chance of surviving parvo than those not vaccinated for that disease!
Parvo vaccine itself was immune suppressive.
Parvovirus was ubiquitous in the environment.
Animals treated homeopathically when sick with parvo had far better survival rates than those treated with the usual drugs.
Distemper was prevented by taking pups to a known wildlife area where raccoons with distemper lived.
Dr. Rosemary Manziano learned of the outbreak of canine distemper in raccoons in her area through the CDC. She boldly suggested to her puppy owners over a period of 11 years that they visit a pond known to be a hangout for these raccoons. After a brief period of sniffing around the bushes and maybe drinking the water, the pups were brought home.
This was repeated a week later, and on the third week, the good doctor would test for distemper titers, the evidence of immune response. Lo and behold, these pups had fantastic titers indicating strong immunity! And, in case you’re wondering, not one puppy ever got sick in the least. This happened in well over a hundred pups and was, as Dr. Manziano called it, “fool proof immunization.”
After eleven years, it stopped working. She assumed that the disease in raccoons had run its course, natural resistance having been gained by their population.
Dr. Manziano suggested that her new pup owners who wanted natural immunization take short, five minute visits to the most popular dog parks. Those parks with the highest dog traffic were recommended.
This kind of irresponsible advice is not supported by scientific evidence, but then that sort of evidence is of no concern to people who practice the mystical discipline of homeopathy anyway. The reality is that these veterinarians appear to be discouraging their clients from making use of safe and effective therapies that have dramatically reduced the risk of life-threatening illness in dogs and instead recommend exposing dogs to these very serious diseases in the bizarre belief that they are more likely to develop protective immunity without active infection or harm. This belief requires a dramatic ignorance of the entire field of immunology and the history of vaccination or simply a complete rejection of science in favor of the infallible wisdom of uncontrolled personal experience.
In either case, it seems indefensible and unethical. It is a sad comment on the state of the veterinary profession that these doctors are allowed to promote such practices while maintaining the appearance of legitimacy, and the exclusive right to practice veterinary medicine, that comes with being licensed veterinarians. Their behavior not only places their patients at unnecessary risk but undermines the legitimacy of the veterinary profession and the confidence of the public.
Falconer needs to leave the profession, he’s a disgrace to all veterinarians who practice sound science, sound medicine and all for the benefits of all pets.
Likewise his looneytoon cohorts.
I say give them all an experimentally induced wild and exotic viral disease and treat them only with homeopathy and a good dose of fairy dust – I’d bet everything they’d be screaming and begging like a baby to give them real meds.
I hope you’re not still forgiving of their ways, skeptvet, they’re well past the point of no return – the example of exposing non-vaccinated puppies to raccoons and dog parks to challenge their idiot beliefs is not only insane but criminal in every sense of the word. I would love to be a little bird and find out what real pet owners actually think of these little parties and the quoted examples above. Are they too so dense they don’t question a single thing?
This is just unbelievable. Really. This is the kind of crap I have to deal with when people come in spouting nonsense about vaccine. All read online of course.
Infectious disease parties? How crazy is that?
I’m old enough that my mother wanted to send me to see someone with german measles. There was no vaccine available back then, but the risks to a foetus of an infection in the mother were well known and the advice was to have the disease as a child to avoid the problem. She was frustrated as none of my friends or anyone we knew caught german measles. But back then it made sense for girls to have the diease which while unpleasant is not generally dangerous as a way of avoiding the risks to any children they might carry. These days it’s plain criminal.
My father was born in 1946. The first family dogs he remembers were a beautiful pair of pointers my grandfather bought. Both dogs died of distemper in less than a year. Let alone the fact that these diseases can kill, why would any responsible pet owner want his or her animal to suffer through a preventable illness? How is that kind or humane?
As a pet owner (and a parent), the anti-vaccine movement makes me all kinds of angry.
http://gma.yahoo.com/mom-whose-child-died-chicken-pox-advocates-vaccines-072954362–abc-news-topstories.html?vp=1
At least no pox parties for rabies
In addition the ignorance portrayed by individuals such as Dr. Will Falconer, I find this sort of deliberate exposure to infectious diseases to be a challenge to any sort of moral code that one may live by in our current society.
It is clear, from reliable, peer-reviewed evidence, that the benefits of vaccination against disease outweigh its converse. Therefore, any person wishing to promote homeopathic treatment of disease over the use of vaccinations and drugs, had better provide a fair, rational and controlled scientific experiment, as well as data that can be reproduced in identical or similar environments, in order for any mild consideration to be given. Said person should publish his/her work in a reputable scientific journal and await the critical analyses that return – perhaps once responses are received, individuals promoting homeopathy will realise that vaccinations are a more desirable form of treatment.
Morality, being so variable in our current global society, appears in many forms. Most, or nearly all versions of it, however, can coincide on the idea that suffering of any organism is not ideal, by any means, and much effort should be channeled towards alleviating this. Vaccines have been developed with parallel aims and, although in some cases, suffering can be attributed to the use of vaccines, the overall amount of suffering experienced by a group of individuals that develop immunity by vaccination, is significantly less than a group that must develop immunity by affliction of disease.
It is then vividly apparent that any person demoting the use of vaccines over homeopathy, is promoting suffering, and there must be consequences for this.
The idea of forceful exposure is absolutely ludicrous!
Not only is it risking the health of the animal but it is immoral. To force an animal to contract and suffer infectious diseases for the assumption of immunity instead of using the correct methods of vaccines is cruel. It is in no way better than taking the animal to the vet for vaccination. In fact, we all know that going for a vaccination is not exactly cheap but it is a safer and more effective way to battle infectious diseases.
Dr Falconer should get his facts straight and if he thinks the exposure method is so much more useful, he should try it for himself and see how that works out.
A few years back our neighbor got chicken pox and and I could have taken my then 2 year old twins over to get exposed. I just wasn’t up to dealing with the possibility of them actually getting sick. . .so . . . no. . .I didn’t take them.
I would also NEVER knowingly risk my dog in the same manner. No. Not. Ever.
You’re not only risking your own dog by doing this- you’re risking other dogs. Your dog gets a vaccine, it’s not contagious. Your dog gets distemper or parvo, it can spread- apparently a dog can still shed distemper virus for months after an attack. I just hope there are none of these dipshits anywhere near me.
I have watched dogs, most of them puppies, die horrible deaths from parvo and distemper, having worked in animal shelters much of my adult life. This is disgusting and ludicrous.
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So a human not giving vaccines to their child is insane? v.t., the first person to post, said “Are they too so dense they don’t question a single thing?” Perhaps those choosing a more natural way have been the ONLY ones asking a single question. Perhaps they are the only ones not just lining up and blindly doing what everyone else is doing. Perhaps they are the ones doing as the research and finding the answers that have always been there and nobody cared to find. Perhaps there should be a little less judgment and name calling and a little more independent thought. Sounds like all of the people who have commented have been in the “main stream” too long. Come on out…the water is NOT fine!
You’re the one who is deluded. You vets have been knowingly damaging our dogs with annual vaccines for years with zero scientific evidence that they are needed. Dr. Ronald Schultz proved 30 years ago that the core vaccines last for AT LEAST 7 years if not the lifetime of the dog yet vets like you continue to inject dogs with neurotoxins and allergens year after year to line your pockets when the science proves you had no reason whatsoever to do with it. How many dogs have died early after a lifetime of chronic illness thanks to you ignoring science and sense and just worrying about how much money you can make out of unsupecting owners?
As I explained in our email exchange, you are simply foisting your prejudices on people you know nothing about. If you read the article I wrote on vaccines, or if you asked, you would know that I don’t recommend annual vaccinations, and I follow evidence-based vaccination practices. If you were truly informed about the science, rather than simply pushing an anti-vaccine agenda, you would also know that most of the claims you make about the relationship between vaccination and chronic illness are not supported by science, and that homeopathy is a completely useless placebo. However, nothing in your tone suggests you have any interest in looking at facts or evidence since your unshakeable faith in your beliefs is enough for you. Unfortunately for you, simply stating something with confidence doesn’t make it true, and so far you have offered nothing more than opinion. You have not even shown yourself even willing to read what I have written about vaccines before attacking me for practices I don’t advocate and making baseless insinuations about financial motives. If you truly care about science, let’s see some that supports your claims, rather than vacuous personal attacks.
Scientific evidence – does it really hold that much weight? Are we totally incapable of doing our own research? Should we follow, like sheep and blindly accept we need this, that and the other which could be detrimental to our long term health. Homeopathy is over 200 years old. Surely if it was useless it would have died out a long time ago. Many medical doctors and vets go on to study holistically. They go that one step further to understand the mind/body connection, something nobody can dispute exists, especially if you are talking about placebo effects. The placebo effect can work both ways whether you use conventional medicine or some other treatment.
Those of us who actually bother to go out there and ask questions and find answers soon realise that everybody has a story to tell. I have come across many people who have never vaccinated and yet a titre test shows their dogs have developed natural immunity on core diseases. I have also come across many who have turned to holistic treatment because their animals have suffered vaccine damage resulting in auto-immune diseases, allergies etc. It happens but many do not get reported because they are told by their vets ‘It couldn’t possibly be the vaccines’ and they believe them because they trust their physicians. As we get older we begin to realise that something isn’t quite right out there and things just aren’t actually getting ‘healed’ but suppressed only to come back stronger or as something else. We begin to question who is actually making the ‘snake oil’; the synthetic manufactured drugs with side effects or the natural remedies that have a, surprisingly to some, very good track record.
Let’s not be patronising and poo poo homeopathy completely. If you can’t get your head around it don’t condemn it, because it has worked for many people all over the world.
Oh and chicken pox parties, far better to get it when you are younger than older and get natural immunity.
I believe some even have kennel cough parties these days. Me, I prefer to use the homeopathic nosodes for kennel cough and Lepto and I stopped vaccinating after a vet thought it was necessary to start the protocol again on the first year booster because he had lapsed. My rescue dog came to me at 20 months old and is now 7 and never had to see a vet yet. Raw fed and vaccine free from then on.
Can I also ask you all to strongly consider titre testing before having a so called booster (obviously not for those who live in areas where Rabies is needed) and also to be aware that using something like VacciCheck which is an in-house, affordable test, will tell you if antibodies are present on core vaccines. If the dog is already immune
to these three core diseases, re-vaccinating will not add any extra immunity.
Quote from WSAVA Guidelines: http://www.wsava.org/sites/default/files/New%20Puppy%20Owner%20Vaccination%20Guidelines%20May%202013_0.pdf
The WSAVA supports the use of titre testing. This is where a small sample of blood
is taken from the dog and checked for the presence of circulating antibodies. The
presence of circulating antibodies indicates that the dog is immune, and
revaccination (with core vaccines) is not required. You may decide to titre test before
giving the 12 month booster, as this may show that boosting is unnecessary. Two
new in-practice titre-testing kits are now available which will allow your vet to do a
titre test very quickly, without sending the blood sample to a laboratory. Ask your vet
to look into this less expensive option. One kit is called VacciCheck (Biogal
Laboratories) and the other is called TiterChek (Zoetis).
Hmm, where to start….
Yes, it’s the difference between thousands of years of most kids dying before adulthood and average life expectancies in the 30s and the world we ignorantly take for granted today.
No, we should not blindly follow homeopaths who claim miracles without proof. We should take the initiative to look at the actual evidence for ourselves. When we do that, we will see that we are being lied to.
Sure it would have. Just like astrology, ritual sacrifice, bloodletting, and all the other therapies that survived centuries without actually working.
Much safer, of course, is to get vaccinated and get the immunity without the disease.
Titre testing is perfectly reasonable, though not because vaccines are as horrible as you suggest but because they are even more effective than we used to think. Other than that, you are simply repeating pseudoscientific cliché’s that show you have not, in fact, taken the time or effort to learn how science works or what it says about the things you have such firm opinions on.
Science only proves what nature already knows.
What better proof than proving it to yourself 😉
How you belittle all the qualified doctors in the world in conventional medicine who also practice homeopathy and other complementary therapies. What do they know that you haven’t found out?
Whilst you accuse me of not taking the time and effort to learn how science works, equally I doubt you have taken the time to learn any complementary therapies. Please also note I call it complementary not alternative as these things can work hand in hand.
As for safer to get the vaccination instead of the disease, tell that to my 9 year old autistic grandson who was progressing nicely until he got vaccinated. You cannot deny that this is happening all over the world and is why people are able to claim compensation for vaccine damage.
Actually, I can deny that vaccines have anything to do with autism because the evidence against this idea is overwhelming. The fact that you still believe this to be true is the clearest evidence that you really don’t understand science, medicine or health at all. It is as reasonable to suggest the earth is flat and disease is caused by demonic possession as it is to claim that vaccines cause autism. Clearly, your mind is as closed as it is possible to be, and no evidence can possibly shift your beliefs. I find it amazing that you can’t see the hubris in this.
As for safer to get the vaccination instead of the disease, tell that to my 9 year old autistic grandson who was progressing nicely until he got vaccinated. You cannot deny that this is happening all over the world and is why people are able to claim compensation for vaccine damage.
Um, afraid that ship sailed long ago.
Oh, and nice spin on the term “complementary” – which is all that is, a SPIN on something that adds virtually nothing to an already useful and effective treatment.
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Why are you denying that Dr Rosemary and Dr Faulkner has been immunizing animals using their natural immunities for over 11 years without one animal getting sick?
If you choose to play vaccine roulette that’s the choice of the puppy owner.
Vaccine Damage in humans and animals is vastly unreported because people like you skeptvet don’t believe they have the potential to cause the very disease they were meant to protect the person or animal and more. I’ll find the list of diseases and post later.
Skeptvet how many rabies vaccines have you given yourself since you have been a vet?
When the law was saying every year did you get one every year as you were doing to animals? Yes people vets are supposed to be vaccinated with rabies in case they get bit by a rabbit animal. I don’t mean to sound disrespectful to skeptvet but I’m not even sure he is a real vet by what I have been reading in his posts. Dr. Rosemary and Dr. Faulkner have proven natural immunities work to protect healthy animals, why would anyone want to put all those chemicals into their animals bodies? It’s not the virus in the vaccine that does the damage it’s the preservatives. Skeptvet maybe you would like to list the preservatives in the vaccines for these good people so they know what their putting into their animals bodies.
Dr. Rosemary wrote this to me so it’s word for word how she instructs her clients to do with their animals.
Yes, Dr Rosemary Manziano learned of the outbreak of canine distemper in raccoons in her area through the CDC. She boldly suggested to her pet owners having dogs with low antibody or no antibodies against Distemper virus that they visit the beach town known to be endemic for Distemper Virus. The Canine Distemper out break caused over 150 raccoons to die of Distemper virus within a 6 month period . The puppies were given a 10 minute period of sniffing around the town of Point Pleasant , the pups were then placed back in the car and brought back home.
This was repeated a week later, and on the third week, the good doctor would test for distemper titers (antibodies ), the evidence of immune response. Lo and behold, these pets had fantastic high antibody titers, indicating strong immunity! And, in case you’re wondering, not one puppy ever got sick in the least. After eleven years, it stopped working. The disease was no longer present and all the raccoons were naturally immunized. She assumed that the disease in raccoons had run its course, natural resistance having been gained by their population. What to do now?
Dr Manziano suggested that her new pup owners who wanted natural immunization take short, 10 minute visits to the most popular dog parks close to there home . Those parks with the highest dog traffic were recommended.
The procedure was simple:
Open car door
Let pup out on the ground in the busiest part of the park
Time 10 minutes
Load up and go home return 1 week later
Once again, after a couple of exposures like this, titers were drawn and were found high against both distemper and parvo only in those instances where the virus was present. Immunization had taken place. It is important to note puppies should not be going to a large city like Philadelphia or New York City for the day, this would be a sure way of causing over exposure giving the virus a chance to cause illness. The protocol must be followed :10 minutes once a week for 2 exposures and then stay as long as you like . How many got symptoms of either disease? None. Not one pup ever fell ill in years of doing this.
In case you’re wondering, “How long will this immunity last?” the answer is simple: a lifetime! Remember the understanding of the veterinary immunologists from way back in 1992:
Vaccine
One Vaccine Can Change Your Dog’s Life Forever
Every day, we hear about dogs whose lives have been forever changed by vaccination and this is why we work hard to educate pet owners on vaccine dangers. Every single vaccine has the ability to cause illness and even death, so it’s critical that no unnecessary vaccine is ever given to a dog. Once a vaccine is given, you can never reverse that decision, so educate yourself, be an active partner with your vet, and read the following story before deciding on your dog’s vaccine schedule.
WARNING] This post contains graphic images!
Here’s the deal …
1. Rabies vaccination is not safe.
2. It’s the only vaccine required by law and it poses a huge health risk to your dog
3. The more rabies shots your dog gets, the higher the health risks
You might notice an adverse reaction in your dog right away, like vomiting or swelling at the injection site…
… but you may notice them months later (and since all that time has passed, your vet won’t even consider it to be connected to the rabies shot).
In today’s article, Dr Patricia Jordan lists the top 65 health problems linked to the rabies vaccination, and she shares chilling images directly related to the vaccine itself from her own personal library.
I have owned dogs for decades and have gone along with vaccinations as required by law.
I now do the minimum (rabies) once they are a year or two old.
The average life span tends to be 12-14 years whether I avoided vaccines or not. Ironically, the two small breeds that made it to age 16 were the ones that received the most vaccinations.
There are so many misconceptions and falsehood here, it is hard to know where to begin. You simply choose to believe the claims these anti-vaccine vets make, about the risks of vaccines and about their supposed success with alternatives. The fact that they say these things and that you believe them doesn’t make them facts, merely beliefs. The facts, as established by real science, is that vaccines are incredibly effective, very, very safe, and far safer than haphazard “natural” exposure to disease. Likely, quacks like these get away with failing to provide legitimate protection for their patients from some diseases because of her immunity, in which the pets’ exposure to these diseases is limited by all the other people around them who do get their dogs properly vaccinated.
I won’t try to change your mind since you clearly have an unshakable faith in the lies these people are spreading, but I will point out for anyone else following the discussion that there are dozens of articles here that address the truth about these claims, from supposed “toxins” in vaccines to the complete unreliability of the anecdote-based claims these antti-vaccine vets rely on.
Thanks for sharing this. This is completely insane and should, in my view, count as malpractice. This person is encouraging people to risk death and serious illness from completely preventable disease by exaggerating the risks of the vaccines and providing an alternative that is complete voodoo. The only way anyone can take this sort of thing seriously is by ignoring all the established science of infectious disease prevention and the history of the last century, in which we replaced the death and disability caused by “natural” exposure to measles, mumps, polio, and so many other illnesses with the much safer practice of vaccination. I appreciate you helping to illustrate how dangerous and irrational vets like this are, though I understand that was not your intent.
Just to be clear, I will not permit links to anti-vaccine propaganda and lies on this site. There are plenty of places people can go to be misinformed about vaccination. You are welcome to make specific arguments that the readers here can debate and discuss, but copying nonsense from the likes of Mercola and Dogs Naturally isn’t allowed.
Dr. Jordan is not only completely wrong about vaccines, she is an extremist fanatic completely out of touch with reality on the subject. I’ve written about her often, and I certainly won’t let this blog be a platform for spreading her vitriolic nonsense.
“I appreciate you helping to illustrate how dangerous and irrational vets like this are, though I understand that was not your intent”.
It was my intent (assuming you were speaking to me).
Unfortunately, people listen to these folks because they are “veterinarians”.
They hear what they want to believe.
Common vaccine reactions:
Lethargy
Stiffness
Hair loss
Lack of appetite
Hair color change at vaccination site
Conjunctivitis
Fever
Sneezing
Oral Ulcers
More serious reactions:
Immunosuppression
Granulomas and Absesses
Behavorial Changes
Hives
Vitiligo
Facial Swelling
Weight Loss
Allergic Hypersensitivity
Reduce Milk Production (female)
Respiratory Disease
Lameness
Allergic Uveitis
Very Severe Illnesses:
Injection Site Sarcomas (cancer)
Glomerulonephritis
Anaphylaxis
Myocarditis
Autoimmune Arthritis
Encephalitis or Polyneuritis
Poly arthritis
Seizures
Hypertrophic Osteodystrophy
Abortion
Autoimmune Hemolytic Anaemia
Congenital Abnormalities
Immune-medicated Thrombocytopenia
Embryonic (fetal) death
Thyroiditis
Sorry, I was responding to a series of comments from an anti-vaccine and didn’t realize your post was from a different person. Thanks!
No need to apologize. You have helped me be to able to trust my vet. I have a crazy terrier that would like nothing more than to bite a jogger that happens to get to close to us when we are out walking. If he ever succeeds and his rabies vaccine isn’t up to date, it won’t be pretty 🙂
Marlene,
Please, by all means, book your next month-long vacation to some third world country and see for yourself why evil vaccines are soooooooo not necessary. And I mean, for both humans and domesticated pets.
Yawn, put up some evidence instead of anti-vaccine propaganda [edited]
NB. Easy on the insults, please vt
I guess the pups “treated” by Dr Manziano were exposed to the memory of distemper in the water frequented by raccoons. Proving yet again that water has memory. (Yes, this is sarcasm in case that’s not clear.)
Lesley, I will poo poo homeopathy as much as possible. If water really does have a memory, shouldn’t it remember the T.rex crap that was floating in it 65 million years ago?