I have recently summarized the limited evidence concerning the use of Azodyl, a popular probiotic product, for treatment of kidney disease in cats, including a recent study presented as an abstract at the American College of Veterinary Internal Medicine Forum. Another study of this product has also been presented at the same conference.
David J. Polzin, DVM, PhD, DACVIM . Probiotic Therapy of Chronic Kidney Disease
This was a considerably more comprehensive research project, though still with some limitations, as is always true. 32 dogs with moderate kidney failure were randomly assigned to treatment with Azodyl or a placebo. They were otherwise treated identically according to a standardized algorithm for managing kidney disease. They were evaluated in terms of comprehensive bloodwork, body condition, and owner perception of quality of life and 7 time points from 1 month to 1 year after the start of the study. No significant difference in any measure was found between the groups at any time point.
The Azodyl was given as an intact capsule in this study, which eliminated the possible concern about the probiotic organisms being destroyed in the stomach that was raised in the cat study, in which the Azodyl capsules were opened and the product sprinkled on the food. The supplement was also given at twice the manufacturer’s recommended dose. Some of the dogs did have episodes of urinary tract infection during the 12 months of the study and did received short courses of antibiotics, which could potentially interfere with probiotic therapy. But this seems insufficient to entirely invalidate the rather startlingly consistent, negative findings of the study. And since infections are a common and unavoidable problem in kidney failure patients, if the therapy is so easily rendered useless, it would not be of much benefit in the even less controlled conditions of standard clinical use.
Of course, almost no single study should be taken as the final word on any therapy. However, negative results are likely to be more reliable than positive results, and the balance of the evidence is so far pretty negative concerning the usefulness of probiotic therapy for kidney failure. There are theoretical and in vitro study results which suggests that the best one could hope to achieve with probiotic therapy in kidney failure patients is a 10-20% decrease in bloodwork markers of renal failure, which might or might not be sufficient to meaningfully affect the clinical symptoms and the course of the disease. Certainly, in the face of being unable to routinely employ dialysis and transplantation, the most effective therapies available for humans with kidney disease, we should employ any treatment that offers a significant benefit, even a small one. But at this point, it doesn’t look like probiotic therapy holds especially great promise for this disease, unlike some of the other possible conditions in which it might be useful.
In any case, there doesn’t seem to be a strong case for suggesting owners spend their money on this product based on the evidence so far available. And the negative findings so far seen in clinical studies of dogs and cats point out the danger of extrapolating from limited studies in other species. The company-sponsored studies in rats and miniature pigs with artificially induced kidney disease have not proven an accurate indicator of the product’s performance in cats and dogs with naturally occurring kidney failure.
Thanks for taking the time to do this blog. I am considering changing vets because she keeps on prescribing these questionable “nutraceuticals” (Ugh!) Azodyl costs a buck per pill. I might be better served spending that money taking my cat to a good movie once a week!
Thanks. (1)Could you suggest an alternative. The vet is consult is supposedly te best in the region. He being a hard core worshipper of Azodyl I am in doldrums as to wht should I resort to nxt. (2)I have heard Homeopathy is a very good option. Could you assist on the same.(3) what diet would be best to assist him at this stage . I am attempting to experiment with boiled veggies, but I dont know which ones are good for him. (4) Azodyl in the long run affects the heart. Could you assist me on confirming if this is true.
Sorry, but of course I cannot give specific medical advice regarding individual patients on the internet. I can certainly tell you that homeopathy has no proven value for any problem, and there is strong evidence that it is nothing but a placebo. The general recommendation for chronic kidney failure is a comemrcial diet, preferably canned, that is specifically designed for patients with kidney disease. Homemade diets can also be appropriate but should be formulated by a board-certified veterinary nutritionist.
If you are uncomfortable with the advice your veterinarian is giving you, there is no reason not to seek addditional advice elsewhere, including from a specialist in internal medicine.
Good luck with your pet.
Well, I started my 14 year old beagle on this a year ago….she was getting fluids and was given a few months. A year later her values are still in the low range and this is without a food change or any fluids. You can be skeptical all you want, but my vet, from Cornell University, says it is because of Azodyl and the phosphorus binder. She is even on grain free Fromm’s, which isn’t the crap prescription diets always prescribed, and is thriving. My vet is even more convinced of the Azodyl because we didn’t decrease her protein levels in her food. For the record, my vet was pushing the prescription diet but I refused to feed her food full of corn. He is now comfortable with the fromms until her levels increase.
I just wanted to make sure others don’t give up or rule it out for treatment. I know I will eventually lose her to renal failure, but I have been given a lot more time with her because of Azodyl.
While it’s always nice to hear about a patient who is doing well, there are dozens of reasons why such stories tell us nothing about the effectiveness of individual therapies. Such stories are used to support every therapy ever invented, so either there is nothing that doesn’t work or scientific research is better than anecdotes in helping us figure out what is helpful and what isn’t.
My cat has been give 2 months to live because of renal failure (3.0 creatinie –was 4- 96 BUN). She has also been treated for restrictive cardiomyopathy by a specialist for the past two years so most likely the diuretics needed to keep her from heart failure have contributed. She can not do fluid therapy because of her heart problems, although my heart vet said we could try it in a limited fashion as a last resort. She is also on a prescription renal diet. I am a complete skeptic of homeopathy, but I decided to try this because what have I got to lose at this point. Maybe I will be one of the lucky ones.
David, what do you have to lose with homeopathy? Your money, and the fact that your kitty will experience NO effect from any homeopathic “remedy”.
Azodyl is a probiotic, though, not homeopathy.
I meant Azydol not homeopathy. I would never try homeopathy. One thing I did not mention that my cat is on permanant antibiotics because of an absorbed tooth that causes infections. The infection swells her mouth and she won’t eat for a week everytime pus starts to form in her gum. The antibiotics may have killed off the “good” bacteria as well so I am hoping that in my specific case it will make a bigger difference. I am considering a probiotic with many more strains of bacteria instead of Azydol though such as this http://www.amazon.com/Mercola-Complete-Probiotics-grams-powder/dp/B005IW1GOY/ref=sr_1_1?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1365710530&sr=1-1
If it doesn’t work I am out $30. Given the thousands of dollars I have spent on a cardiac vet in the last two years, it is a small price to give it try.
Probiotics in general are at least plausible, though they have only actually been shown to work for a couple of indications (e.g. antibiotic-associated diarrhea in children). The problem is knowing which organisms will work in which species for which problems. Lots of uncertainty there.
And they are not risk free. In humans with serious disease, sepsis associated with probiotic organisms has been reported. Uncommon but a bit of a roll of the dice. In the case of Azodyl and renal disease, there is active evidence against a benefit, so while it is not definitive it certainly suggests the product is not worthwhile. For other uses, such as the chronic tooth root abscess you mention, it is possible probiotics might have some value, but there isn’t any evidence either way. So again, rolling of dice. As long as you understand the evidence and it’s limitations, you can make the right decision for you and your pet with all the information.
Good luck!
Well I contacted a vet who says that she combines western and eastern veterinary.
The first in home 2 hour visit is $500 and includes an initial examination, 3 types of acupuncture, chiropractic manipulation, massage, homeopathy and diet/supplement advice. She wants to examine the her food, food and water bowls, and type of water. Needless to say, I was surprised she did not say she had a “special tonic” as well.
I asked if I could just get dietary advice and she balked. I am desperate to help my cat in late stage renal failure, but I had a knot in my stomach the whole conversation listening to her. At least two follow up visits at $250 was suggested. This is not an insignificant amount of money for me. I have no problem paying thousands of dollars a year for heart sonograms and heart medication as they have kept Lilly alive for two years when I know she would have gone into heart failure otherwise. 95% of me knows this is a sham, but I will feel so guilty if she dies if I did not try something else even though I know I shouldn’t feel that way.
David, I certainly empathize with you, CRF is eventually a debilitating disease and emotions run high with the owners. I would just offer that it seems the vets you’re already working with are doing the right things for Lilly.
To rock the boat with the total, complete nonsense known as woo that you’ve just described above is doing absolutely no ethical nor medical service for Lilly. In fact, the exam charge(s) alone is beyond comprehension. But, this is what woomeisters do, they charge you an arm and a leg for their carefully crafted “compassionate” advice because they care “so much more than your regular vet” and of course, they can always do everything “so much better than conventional vets, with so little risk”.
It’s all B.S., and forgive my candor, but I’m so sick of these quacks that prey on vulnerable people, and worse, when they target pet patients who cannot voice what they want and need. I’m not saying you are vulnerable, but in a way, you are desperate to save your kitty, making you vulnerable to their tactics and losing more than you could ever imagine.
You have two conditions to worry about, the heart and the kidneys. The diet, in practical terms should contain low-sodium, low fat, lower protein -or at least a suitable source of protein- etc. But, sometimes practical is not always possible. In certain conditions where the patient is not eating sufficiently, it is sometimes best to feed whatever the patient will eat (within reason). You should be able to trust your current vets on their nutritional advice. You certainly do not want to make drastic changes in diet (or treatment, for that matter) for the sake of believing those changes are going to significantly alter the course of disease. If Lilly is doing fine on the prescription renal diet, is eating sufficiently, then don’t change what is working. If however, she has sporadic eating habits, refuses to eat, is vomiting, nauseous etc, then feeding smaller amounts more often, or a comparable food that is more palatable for her is an option. Even a supermarket brand would suffice if it means she will eat it happily (please check with your vets first). The addition of anti-nausea or anti-vomiting medications can also be quite helpful, available from your vets.
I understand you are compelled to do everything it takes to help Lilly, and no one could fault you for wanting to do so. Please understand that alternatives are not the answer, else they would be medicine. CRF and CHF are difficult to treat, and difficult for us to except the outcomes. Sometimes the most we can do is alleviate symptoms, pain, and continue the course, hope for the best. Lilly deserves that much, she doesn’t deserve to have her treatment drastically altered to that which is no treatment at all (alt med, quackery, treatment that has no evidence of efficacy, and could in fact, cause more harm).
I realize that fluid therapy and anesthesia is risky, but have you discussed in detail with your vets any options for removing what I am assuming, the FORL? The problem by not correcting this is that her appetite will suffer, pain will prevent her from eating sufficiently, and the potential for infections exacerbating the heart and kidneys is not helping. If your vets have determined surgical extraction is not possible, then at least discuss inflammatory control, and pain medications.
I have used homeopathy for my dogs. It saved the life of one of my dogs that had lyme disease. Its hard to find a good homeopathic doctor because it is not supported very well in the United States. I have also had acupuncture work for dogs as well. Western medicine does the job when necessary but their are alternatives that work.
You’re obviously free to believe what you like, but you might consider some of the reasons why things are not always as they seem, and why scientific investigation is really more reliable than personal experience in deciding what works and what doesn’t/
Why We’re Often Wrong
Medical Miracles–Should We Believe?
Laura, if homeopathy cured ANYTHING, it would become mainstream medicine used in every clinic and hospital in the world with proven efficacy, safety etc behind it.
Not one homeopathic treatment has ever cured anyone or any animal of any disease or ailment. Not one. Ever.
In over two hundred years of hype and quackery, it is past time to retire the homeopathy nonsense. Way past time.
Since starting my cat on the Azodyl I’ve seen a vast improvement in his bloodwork. He has hyperthyroid and kidney issues at 15 years of age. I don’t feed him the standard renal or hyperthyroid prescription foods as he showed quick deterioration on both. Lots of corn and pork by product in the ingredients. I took him off of that food. I also took him off of all fish. He takes Felimazole for the thyroid issue and Azodyl. Plenty of water in a large stainless steel dog dish that accomodates his whiskers which has lead him to drink more. I give him Wellness brand chicken formula & Weruva brand pumpkin chicken as he loves the pumpkin liquid. He also likes the new Wellness selects chunky turkey and chicken. He eats a little Blue brand Indoor Cat kibble with lifesource bites. He has shown a vast improvement in activity and health. The vet reduced his Felimazole after the last blood tests. All I can say is he’s doing much better. Here’s a good article to consider on fish: http://www.littlebigcat.com/nutrition/why-fish-is-dangerous-for-cats/
I’m glad your pet is doing well, but unfortunately such anecdotes aren’t really a good way to figure out which therapies are effective and which arent’, for resons I’ve discussed before.
After reading all of the articles above, I must make a comment. All medicine in the beginning we don’t know until we try. That is why we call it practicing medicine. Regardless of what we choose, standardized medice or experimental, scientifically proven or not, the small sample that it is tested on does not conclude it works or does not work. There are millions of animals in this world and just because something works or does not work on a small sample in not conclusive. If a treatment you are using is saving your dog or cats life, even temporarily, you must continue. It may or my not be the Azodyl. If may be a combination of the Azodyl and the diet it is receiving, but if it is working why would anyone be so skeptical about it. It cost less than a visit to the vet in most cases per month. There are people who are against conventional medicine as this will affect their pocketbook. As much as I hate to say this, all vets are not in it because they love animals. Don’t get me wrong, I am not saying that the author of this blog is one of them but they do exist. Good luck with all your animals.
The problem with your logic is that you suggest we can’t be certain whether or not something works on the basis of small clinical trials (which is true), but then you say we can say whether or not it is working in one single pet (which is not true). The reason to give greater weight to controlled studies than personal observations is that controlled studies are more reliable and account for numerous sources of error. They are imperfect, but they are better than the “try-it-and-see” approach, which doesn’t control for any kinds of bias, confounding, or other sources of error. So it makes no sense to suggest that the limitations of scientific evidence mean it’s ok to rely on even more limited information, like individual anecdotes.
I rescue and rehabilitate small dogs with special needs. I have cared for every malady and disease under the sun – diabetes, cushing’s, CRF, CHF, auto immune disorders, ringworm, scabies, distemper, cancer, extreme malnutrition from neglect…. the list goes on. Vets are extremely limited in what they know about diet and supplementation and they practice out of fear (sometimes quite rightly) that the owner doesn’t know what they are doing. Sometimes a supplement will work wonders on a particular dog and sometimes it will not. Sometimes a prescribed drug will work wonders on a dog (lasix) and then there are dogs where it will not. If you get a supplement that is a miss you are unlikely to kill your dog. You can kill the dog with a prescription drug miss. I have had 60 controlled studies through my home where I control their diet, supplementation – everything that goes into those dogs with ailments and I have seen supplements make a huge difference and if anyone wants to know what those ones are then let me know and I will share. I am with those dogs day in and day out. I have seen supplements that make no difference. It is never one size fits all but it is sometimes worth the shot. My husband has crohns and he is told by his specialist to take pro biotics and it has helped more than anything else – and he is the biggest skeptic in the world. Human Gastroenterologist will tell you to take probiotics for reflux because they know that it works. Vetri Science make some great products for dogs – their bowel defense formula made one dog with terrible long standing IB a happy and firm camper and it has since worked on others that I have fostered. To pooh pooh supplementation for non prescription remedies is extremely short sighted. Just check out the studies into Melatonin for Cushing’s and Canine Cognitive Dysfunction and Epilepsy. Frankly I would rather give my 16-year-old dog plain old Melatonin to combat the night pacing caused by dementia if it works – and it does – and many respected veterinary specialists feel the same. Try the Azodyl with your dog and if you see a change then feel good that you are doing all that you can. Measure the quality of life your dog has and if it improves or just maintains then stay the course.
Any controlled studies on specific supplements for specific problems would be invaluable and should be published. Unfortunately, uncontrolled individual observations are inherently unreliable, which is why randomized, placebo controlled studies with appropriate design and execution are necessary. If you give a supplement and a dog improves, you cannot simply conclude the supplement is helping. That is one of the most common and most powerful sources of error scientific studies correct for.
Also, I think it is a bit presumptious to suggest veterinarians are inadequately knowledgeable about supplements and nutrition. Often, their reluctance to recommend things that have never been tested scientifically is written off as ignorance, when it is really the result of understanding why science is necessary to know what is truly safe and effective and what isn’t. I don’t “pooh pooh” anything. I carefully and thoughtful analyze the claims made for individual supplements and the evidence provided to support them. When the evidence is reliable, I am happy to recommend supplements (e.g. fish oils for allergic dermatitis and possibly for arthritis, some probiotics for antibiotic-associated diarrhea). When the evidence is lacking (e.g. most supplements) or clearly negative (e.g. glucosamine), I don’t recommend them. The fact that you think some of these things work doesn’t mean you are better informed, just that you trust your experiences rather than science to inform your beliefs. Here are just a few reasons why maybe you shouldn’t.
“Also, I think it is a bit presumptious to suggest veterinarians are inadequately knowledgeable about supplements and nutrition.” Agreed – that was a harsh comment and I retract it. I have way too much respect for the work that many fine vets do to stand by that off hand remark. I apologize.
You may chuckle but I do pay very close attention to the effects of supplementation. If I think one is working then I don’t use any other supplement and I keep the diet the same and I remove the supplement for up to two weeks – sometimes longer – then I observe the change. SAMe used to improve cognitive response in dog dementia – the dog went downhill when the supplement was removed for 3 weeks then stabilized and improved when the SAMe was returned to the diet. So I keep using it. I guess I could rely on some laboratory finding – but that data is most likely gathered in situations where the subtle changes in behavior cannot be observed as well as in my home laboratory which is manned by the technician (moi) 24/7.
I use prescribed drugs for dogs and I try supplements and include them when I see improvement. I think you should do your own studies and stop relying on the
science of lab coats to tell you what is good for an animal and what is not. I want to know what they were feeding the animals with the Azodyl. Were they just measuring bun and creatinine or were they considering the actual physical/mental state of the animal? The product may make a dog feel better without showing a change in numbers. We have all seen that happen.
Bronwyne, why should skeptvet be required to provide the studies and evidence of the dubious claims that others make? You do understand how this works, right? (extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence)
When I first bought azodyl from my vet, I thought it was wonderful and wondered if similiar research was going on for humans. The caps were the large ones and when I ordered again I ordered more but they came in a much smaller cap. The dosage was still the same???? So I called the company and and was told that customers preferred the smaller ones. I notice there’s no directions for large dogs so do they just get a handful?? The customer service person told me that they had “compacted” the amount from the larger cap into the smaller one. “No” I argued because tapping the smaller ones down left the capsule about 20% EMPTY! She insisted. I have two small dogs in kidney failure. The first learned to throw them up later where I might find them the next day – so I had to give up on that idea. The second gets his three every day. Of the two the first one is doing really well and the second is losing weight as he doesn’t feel like eating much. Maybe a pharmacist could weigh these caps??? I recently took these dogs to Auburn Vet School and the reaction was sort of plus minus on the use of Azodyl. That’s from one vet (student?) and about only my two dogs – not of statistical value but I wanted to share what I was told.
As you have discovered, a big problme with such supplements is the lack of adequate regulation. The company can alter the formulation, the dose, or just about anything else without doing any research to see if it has an effect or without telling anyone. Since the research today suggests no benefit at all, the changes you’ve seen probably don’t have an influence on how our pets are doing, but such changes certainly wouldn’t be tolerated in the manufacture of medicines.
Thank you for your reply. I can think of only three reasons why the company switched to small caps. The product doesn’t really work so it doesn’t matter; less product in more caps is more money for the company; going past three caps (no matter how small or the fact they are only partially filled, doesn’t change number one! Logic tells me that if my nephrologist has never heard of this bacterium maybe it’s not in human trials. Do you know? Think how that could stave off dialysis if it really worked. I have talked to dietary dialysis nurses about this and learned that they don’t even suggest lowering protein in human diets TILL dialysis. Why is one sibling pup just fine without it? Is logic no longer involved in any of this????
Can I get a link to this study?
I have a group of believers who don’t want to see that this supplement may be a scam.
Thanks 🙂
Janet
The study was presented as an abstract at the annual conference of the American College of Veterinary Internal Medicine, so I don’t believe it’s in print anywhere except the proceedings from the conference, which are only available to people who attended. Given the bias against publishing negative results, and the reluctance of journals to publish studies already reported somewhere, I doubt it will ever appear anywhere else.
Please reply to my email. I have an 18-year old Persian cat who is on Azodyl for about 9 months now. He seems to be doing well. I order the capsules and have them overnighted so they stay cold.
I was looking for an answer of what to do if I miss a dose, he’s about 9 lbs. so is on twice/day and today I don’t remember if I gave him his second dose. I’ve been opening the morning pills and putting the powder in his food and had no idea that this was not okay.
So I guess what I’m asking what to do if you think you miss a dose (I honestly don’t remember if I gave the second dose) and am I wasting my money here? The vet says he absolutely has to be on it for life.
Thanks for any advice you can give me.
Nancy Catania
I’m afraid I can’t give specific advice for your pet without having a working relationship with both of you as your regular veterinarian. I can say that, as the studies I’ve written about here suggest, there is no evidence Azodyl is of any benefit for kidney disease. Therefore, I believe it unlikley that missing a dose, or stopping altogether, is likely to have any negative effects. What I would suggest, however, is that you consult with an internal medicine specialist in your area if possible.
Good Luck!
Nancy, a good rule to follow when giving meds to pets and if you skip a dose: if you skip a dose, wait for the next scheduled dose to give it (especially if you don’t remember giving one, you could overdose by giving more than prescribed). But, ideally, one should always call the vet to confirm, since it depends on the medication and for what purpose.
Write on paper or a chalkboard, the times the meds are to be given each day. Cross off each scheduled time each time you give the medication, then you’ll know what you’ve already given.
I was told by my vet that my 14-year old Brussels Griffon/Yorkie had moderate kidney disease. I purchased the K-D Dog Food and fed it to her every day. She seemed to lose more weight.
I called and spoke to the vet about it and she told me to face it….that my baby wold be dead in a few weeks to 2 months. The first appt. was $172.00 without purchasing the Azoydl or the supplement. She said that we could manage this and she would be okay.
My question is what has changed in a month?
I found the Azoydl online for $32.00 (plus shipping and handling. So how come the vet’s was $68.00?
I feel extremely hurt and deceived by this vet. What happened to compassion?
I found a website that I can feed her certain foods and give her certain supplements….Vit. A, etc that I wil try to save my precious baby.
Donna, have you sought a second opinion?
Also, be cautious when taking advice from the net, there are very few supplements that would even be considered helpful in kidney disease, your vet (or a second opinion vet) can discuss options for you if necessary).
Has anyone who’s pet is taking Azodyl noticed hair loss and/or change in fur color? My dog is a Scottie mix, all black. Her hair is not red and has not grown since her last grooming. Azodyl has seemed to help. She’s been on it 6 months with seemingly good results. When she is hungry but doesn’t want anything to eat, I give her yogurt. This could be helping…I don’t know. Any thoughts?
Sorry, I meant to say Her hair is now red.
Has anyone heard about Rubenal? It is made by the same manufacturer as Azodyl but was withdrawn from U.S. market by FDA due to labeling dispute? It is still sold in Canada, Europe/UK.
Rubenal is a rhubarb root extract and this was supposedly studied and shown to have positive effect for kidney disease in humans as well as cats.
Any comments from the SkeptVet? I would appreciate hearing from anyone with knowledge of this supplement
I haven’t looked into this one before, but I’ll put it on my list. In the meantime, here are a couple of sources of info on rhubarb extract generally:
Sloan-Kettering
WebMD
Thanks, I would be very interested in what you find on Rubenal/rhubarb extract.
I have researched it a bit myself (including the two websites you mentioned) and read the results of some of the studies.
Here are some of the studies I found:
http://krex.k-state.edu/dspace/bitstream/handle/2097/9265/AndrewHanzlicek2011.pdf;jsessionid=7628B70F2CE085E1BA155C0FA5A48C35?sequence=1
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2125252
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1865970
I am not a scientist so many of the things I read in studies are not very well understood by me. Perhaps you could shed some light on what the studies actually show.
***Please do NOT let this common shill dissuade you from trying Azodyl. It never ceases to amaze me the extent they will go to in trying to undermine something that is outside of their “realm” of knowledge, and so-called “experience”.***
Folks, just like human doctors, the vast majority of vets are educated by a very well established system, a system that indoctrinates their students by convincing them that nothing outside of their “teachings” has any place or any real value. Ever here of job security? Well, most convential vets and MD’s have it down to a science (no pun intended).
The Skeptvet here would like you to think that he has your back. Touching isn’t it, how concerned he is about you potentially “wasting” your money on this supplement, how endearing he is.
It’s also very telling that a conventional vet, such as he, poo-poo’s the notion that the antibiotics administered to some of the dogs in this study, saying as much as that he thought essentially inconsequential to the overall results of the study. Of course he would, wouldn’t he?
Oh, and let’s please remember that he is advocating a pretty sub-standard diet too, not only for dogs with kidney disease, but also dogs in general. It’s pretty common knowledge that a dog with renal issues must be provided a specialized diet IN ADDITION TO the Azodyl, if you truly want to get positive results. But, as usual, conventional vets just don’t place much stock on a dogs diet. Hell, my “former” vet didn’t even know what Green Tripe was, thinking that it was some kind of fish. Pathetic.
Here’s the bottom line for me: Try it. If it doesn’t work then you are out a paltry amount of $$$. On the other hand if it (Azodyl), a raw diet (with green tripe), fresh filtered water, and maybe some omega 3 oils, do work for your dog, then you and your pooch have EVERYTHING to gain, much to the dismay of “Skepvet” I’m sure.
Such an embarassing and vacuous diatribe. The claim that anyone who presents evidence or arguments you disagree with must be ignorant or under the thrall of some malign commercial interest is a a cheap and silly way to avoid dealing with the substance of those arguments. And the sarcastic “poo-pooing” of the idea that someone you disagree with could honestly care about the well-being of pets is childish and mean-spirited. This sort of rant reflects a quasi-religious fanaticism, and it leaves no room for honest and intelligent disagreement between adults who share a common interest: the well-being of our companion animals. It is truly sad if this is truly how we have come to handle differences of opinion about matters of science and medicine.
So, Greg, by your logic, any employed professional with a degree would be a shill for whomever they acquired their learning, education, practice and experience. Nice try.
Btw, ask any vet and they will tell you half of what they know/learn/practice was never learned in vet school.
“Such an embarrassing and vacuous diatribe”. Embarrassing to “whom” skepvet? The “substance” of your arguments have no substance, that is my point. You can hide behind your self perceived “higher knowledge” and arrogance all you want, but those of us who have open eyes can see right through you. Although I can certainly understand your “embarrassment” at being exposed. It’s not often that “professionals” like yourself are challenged is it?
I find it interesting and ironic that you would equate my comments to that of a religious fanatic. If anything, it is people like you (the indoctrinated) who are the ones who hold so tightly to outdated and dangerous dogmas in an attempt to salvage and protect their fragile egos, and of course their livelihoods. I have all the respect in the world for open minded, progressive, and genuinely concerned MD’s and vets. You speak of your “shared common interest”, but your “common interest” is contingent upon playing by your rules, and by your limited and myopic views on anything outside of the conventional.
If I touched a nerve….good. Maybe it will force you to an honest self assessment. Look in the mirror and ask….”am I doing this solely for my love and concern for animals”? Because if you are then you’ve got some catching up to do.
To v.t. …………….How did you arrive at THAT assumption? That’s a pretty big leap there. No v.t., of course there are open minded, truly genuine, and dedicated professionals of all levels, I just don’t think there are that many of them. It’s not enough to just be formally educated. I have nothing against the educated, having a degree myself, but the learning should not end there. A “true” professional is continually evolving and searching for ways to enhance his profession, without being locked into the system that brought him/her there.
What would you think of a vet that didn’t even know what green tripe was, especially when it has such a profoundly positive effect on a dog’s health and well being? How many vets and MD’s are just going through the motions and parroting the texts because they either aren’t open minded, or they are just too truly uninterested to check alternatives out?
BTW….I agree, it IS the knowledge that comes AFTER school that is the most desired. The question is: how many are truly willing to step outside of the box, outside of the mainstream, to truly pursue the TRUTH? Now that doesn’t mean that I consider anything alternative superior to the conventional, far from it, but I do recognize blind opposition to it when I see it.
Skeptvet, I just wanted to say thank you for doing what you do. I’m currently sifting through blood test results for my bulldog who may have CRF and appreciate the evidence-based opinion here on Azodyl. Don’t let the trolls (like Greg) get you down. I’m sure there are hundreds of others out there like me who benefit from your perspective, but don’t bother to comment.
Thanks Scott, such support is always greatly appreciated!
Ah, yes, the hackneyed and meaningless “you don’t think outside the box,” trope of the nutriceutical shill gang. Great shot, Greg; you really got Skeptvet on that one — whew! Good one! Because, anyone who doesn’t stay at La Quinta Inns & Suites certainly shouldn’t be providing evidence as to the lack of evidence on the effectiveness of Azodyl in CKD. Thanks for setting this thread straight, you rebel!
But, tell me Greg — since you mention nothing (let me repeat that: NOTHING) as to why and how Azodyl is effective in addressing the pathophysiology of CKD, what’s your point? I mean, surely, you must sell the stuff, right? And, so, you must have a keen understanding of the pathophysiology and treatment modalities of CKD in animals. Why hold back? Do share the wealth.
But, let’s start with some basics (‘cause I’m not so clear on the subject and maybe you can help): What is CKD? What leads to CKD? Are there different forms of CKD? What models serve as our source of understanding for CKD in both humans and animals? What defines CKD, and are there stages? What is renal secondary hyperparathyroidism? What’s that all about? What factors slow CKD? What factors accelerate CKD? What parameters of CKD serve as the most sensitive indicators of CKD progression? What can you tell me about the roles of ionized calcium, inorganic phosphate, parathyroid hormone, calcitriol and fibroblast growth factor in CKD? What role does the renin-angiotensin-aldosterone system play in CKD? What the hell’s a nephron? Or a glomerulus? Or a podocyte? And, most importantly, Greg, how does Azodyl alter the progression of CKD? What about that high protein, raw diet you mentioned earlier — how does that alter/affect CKD? And filtered water? Do you mean Brita or PUR – or are we just talkin’ a little cheesecloth? How does that alter the progression of CKD?
Now, admittedly, I also don’t know anything about green tripe other than it’s been around for thousands of years and nobody has yet documented the definitive benefits of its respective ingestion. Why is that, Greg? Is that just more “inside the box” ignorance? Nonetheless, I do know of a similar product — brown colonic epithelial extract — that I believe you, Greg, would thoroughly enjoy and from which you would derive profound benefit. Might I suggest you partake of such and, then, please, do report your findings.
I have helped myself, family and friends with alternative medicine to prevent loss of health or lifetime of medicine with side effects. My dog has had one year of happy and active living after her diagnosis of kidney failure. We did it by a diet of human grade protein and vegetables. Our vet is a little more tolerant of alternatives than this site, including healing my other dog’s knee pain with glucosamine. He also recommends drugs for kidney failure and the warnings for these drugs are the exact same symptoms that she had from the kidney failure. She is feeling pretty bad today and I don’t know how much longer she can stand more drugs that my husband wants to rely on. I bought an herbal supplement that seems to have worked far better than these drugs. Alternative medicine remains so because drug companies cannot patent protect their brand when it’s a natural chemistry and shame on you beczuse you know that. Everyone should be aware of the powerful politicl lobbyists for drug companies. How do I know? I worked for one of the biggest drug manufacturers and I was told how to vote in elections.
Anecdotes about alternative therapies and bad behavior on the part of your employer don’t mean azodyl is effective in treating kidney failure. You are engaged in a purely ideology-driven sort of reasoning here.
Karen, surely you’ve heard of Big Supplement haven’t you? You know, that which is barely regulated yet pulls in billions and billions of dollars every year? Having worked for a drug manufacturer and no one told you that many manufactured drugs originate from natural substances?
Where has your research been published? Was the methodology peer reviewed?
What research? I have cited the papers I have discussed, so you can see for yourself the journals they are in.
My dog who was originally azotemic with proteinuria in May 2013 has been on 3 capsules of Azodyl since then along with fluids and other meds so I cannot tell which are really working but my dog is no longer azotemic but still has protein in her urine. My vet recommended Azodyl. Join the kidneyK-9 group on yahoo and see all the varied reports of other dog owners who have tried Azodyl. You will also benefit from discussions of diet and other meds.