I once referred briefly to Dr. Andrew Jones in a previous post as an example of one of the warning signs of quackery, the claim of secret knowledge that mainstream science and medicine doesn’t want you to have. Of course, his marketing activities include lots of other characteristic features of alternative medicine propaganda, including unfounded accusations about the harm done by conventional medicine and unproven or outright false claims about the safety and efficacy of alternative methods. In many ways, he is a fine example of many warning signs of quackery.
It turns out, the veterinary medical licensing authorities in Canada, where Dr. Jones lives, have more backbone than most of those in the U.S., and for years they have been warning Dr. Jones that unfairly denigrating his colleagues and making false claims is unprofessional and incompatible with the standards licensed veterinarians are expected to uphold. He repeatedly claimed he would abide by the marketing and advertising guidelines all other veterinarians are subject to in his jurisdiction, and repeated broke those commitments. Finally, the British Columbia Veterinary Medical Association (BCVMA) imposed significant fines, and Dr. Jones has chosen to give up his license so he can market his veterinary self-help products without interference.
His supporters, of course, are trying to paint him as a victim, but the evidence is clear that he is yet another alternative guru with a messiah complex making money not only off peddling ineffective or unproven remedies but discouraging pet owners from seeking real medical care for their pets.
The details of the proceedings against Dr. Jones are included in the BCVMA reports available here:
BCVMA Investigating Committee Report
College of Veterinarians Council Final Decision
(note-these links are no longer working. For now, the ruling can be found here)
In 2003, 2004, and 2005, Dr. Jones was asked to stop using advertising language for his practice and products that implied he provided better care or was less concerned about money than other veterinarians. He advertised his own services as “affordable” and “superior” compared to other vets and said things like:
“You will find us honest, convenient, affordable, and above all caring”
“We use only the best materials and labs”
Some of this language was relatively innocuous, and his supporters have made a point of this to suggest that there is no real issue but competition and professional jealousy here. However, it should be obvious why advertising oneself as better than ones colleagues, especially with no evidence but that of one’s own ego to support such a claim, is both offensive and unprofessional. In any case, the only sanction imposed on Dr. Jones was to stop using such language, which he repeatedly agreed in writing to do. As we shall see, he not only broke these promises but engaged in far more egregiously inappropriate behavior.
Dr. Jones went on to form “Dr. Jones Inner Circle Forum,” a web-based service which charged pet owners a subscription fee to receive his “secret” knowledge and wisdom that he repeatedly claimed would make most visits to the veterinarian unnecessary. On this forum, he repeatedly accused conventional veterinarians of naked greed and a lack of interest in the well-being of their patients:
1) P.P.S My goal is to give you the most up to date, unbiased dog and cat health information to allow YOU to keep your pet in top health. I want you to be an empowered pet owner, and You will be one as part of my exclusive Dr. Andrew Jones’ Inner Circle. [I can’t help notice that hucksters and quacks have a great fondness for CAPITAL LETERS. I wonder why that is…]
2) At the end of the day it boils down to money. If the public are not lining vets pockets with unnecessary visits, purchasing processed foods from which vets also take a percentage, that’s quite a reduction in income.
3) I am “positive” that many ‘conventional” veterinarians think that Veterinary Secrets Revealed is a bunch of “hocus pocus” and should be shut down.
What does this mean?
It means that other veterinarians are upset about my website, ebook, and Complete Home Study Course.
After all, I’m showing people how to treat their own pets and save money on Vet bills [at least some of the money they save, of course, will go to Dr. Jones]
4) You should check out my Complete Home Study Multimedia Course. I guarantee that you will treat your pet’s illness and ailments confidently, competently and for less than it would cost if you relied exclusively on professional Veterinary services.
5) This issue: The 6th Secret – The 6th key to extending your pet’s life is knowing when to AVOID you Veterinarian.
In his posts on the Inner Circle forum, Dr. Jones repeatedly claimed alternative or “holistic” methods were safer and more effective than scientific medicine and that the only reason that conventional veterinarians object to them is that the “Secret Society of Veterinarians” was afraid they would lose money if people learned how to keep their pets healthy without professional medical care. When challenged for proof of his claims, Dr. Jones resorted to the time-worn and thoroughly meaningless arguments of longevity, popularity, and personal experience or anecdote:
‘There is no proof…’
But how do you think that most animals in the world are treated? It’s with natural medicine…
Most people in India or China can’t afford to even see a vet or buy medication.
They use herbs, acupressure, massage, supplements, homeopathic treatments.
The animals get better, because the treatments work.
I have seen thousands of pets recover with home remedies.
That is proof.
As if we are seriously expected to believe that the cats and dogs in the third world who do not have access to real veterinary care are healthier than the pets in the developed world. Just like the people who are too poor to have access to science-based medicine are healthier than those of us in the developed world, despite the minor problems of high infant mortality, low life-expectancy, and rampant infectious and parasitic diseases most of us have never seen, I suppose? Arrant nonsense.
The list of absurd, untrue, and unprofessional accusations and claims, all made in an effort to sell books, videos, and subscriptions to the “secrets” of his “Inner Circle,” is extensive. Here are just a few examples:
1) I firmly believe in holistic medicine for pets.
We are killing them with the most of the terrible dog foods on the market along with pesticides contained in flea and tick medications and also medicines the vets want you to purchase. [a letter supposedly from a reader that Dr. Jones reprinted because it reflected his views]
2) “…you should be leery of any LARGE pet food manufacturer- they re[sic] in the business to profit first”
3) HERBAL THERAPY. A number of herbs are used in diabetes. These include Gymnema, Bitter Melon, Fenugreek, and Ginseng. These herbs can be found in specific diabetic herbal combinations. Ginseng is the most effective of these herbs. It has been shown to lower blood sugar in people, and is believed to do the same in animals. The dose is 30 mg per lb of body weight twice daily of the dried herb, or 1 drop per pound of body weight twice daily of the tincture.[implying people can treat their pet’s diabetes alone, with unproven herbal remedies, is especially egregious because it will undoubtedly lead to suffering and death for animals with this serious disease who are not properly treated]
4) Pay Close Attention – today, I’m going to show you why conventional veterinary medicine is harming your pet and step-by-step what you must do to prevent it.
“Regular” veterinary care has lost it’s [sic] effectiveness over the years, and in some cases is causing illness in our pets.
5) The entire Pet Health Industry has a vested interest in discrediting alternative medicines which can safely, naturally and effectively allow pet owners to care for thei pets at home. [a nice example of the conspiracy-theory aspect of quackery]
6) Most veterinarians just choose to ignore the research because either they still feel the benefits of vaccines outweigh the risks, or that they don’t want to lose income from giving booster shots to all those animals each year.
Apart from such false and unproven accusations and claims, Dr. Jones engaged in inappropriate hucksterism, offering “money-back guarantees” and “cures” when such claims can never be anything but lies in medicine.
Despite all of this, the licensing board did not intend to drive Dr. Jones out of practice. He was fined substantially, both for the numerous violations of ethics laws and, even more importantly, for acknowledging in writing that he understood and intended to abide by them and then reneging on these promises in order to continue to profit from unethical and deceitful advertising. However, when he offered to give up his license, the board specifically indicated it did not consider this an appropriate or necessary punishment for the violations. Dr. Jones decision to give up his license is entirely his own.
Unfortunately, it is likely he will continue to profit from spreading lies and misinformation about the veterinary profession, and from offering dangerous advice and unproven or false treatments. He will have to walk a fine line since without a license he cannot legally practice veterinary medicine, but of course the benefits of a free society are great enough that he must be allowed to spout his nonsense as long as he does not cross the line into liable, slander, or the practice of medicine. Sadly, it wouldn’t surprise me at all if he ends up in the U.S. where regulatory authorities have proven far less willing to challenge such snake oil salesman taking advantage of pet owners and profiting from fear and ignorance.
This is all very interesting about Dr. Jones. I was looking at an Iodine product that Dr. Jones is marketing for hypothyroidism in humans. I was skeptical about his reputation and came across this blog. You can imagine my surprise when I read about his supplement peddling for animals. It appears he attacks the medical profession as voraciously as he does the veterinary profession. I am curious as to what kind of medical degree he holds. I respect trained medical professionals and I also look into natural cures, too. The results I have had with natural supplements for me have not mounted to much; however, I realize that if something does not work for me, it may work for someone else. I was tempted to purchase Dr. Jones’ low thyroid product, but since there were legal charges against Dr. Jones in his peddling of supplements to humans, I have decided to forego his recommendations. On another note, our older dog was diagnosed with IVDD (Intervertebral Disk Disorder), which is very serious. We give her a natural product, LifeVantage Canine Health, which has been a miracle remedy for her. She still has degenerative spinal issues, but this supplement has enabled her to walk and play again. She is 14 years old. We watch her closely, don’t let her jump as she used to, and provide ramps for her to get onto furniture, etc. Our vet was amazed at how well she now gets around. If your dog has joint and mobility issues, I highly recommend this product by LifeVantage. And no, I’m not a distributor or dealer…my husband and I just know how much this product helped our dog. We now give it to both of our dogs. They are schnauzers and our babies! Thank you for the good insight into Dr. Jones.
I was given a copy of the “Veterinary Secrets Revealed” book and I have to say that most of what I read in it was pretty conventional and mirrored info I’d been given by my vet and others over the last 35 years. Throughout the book it states the treatments are not a replacement for veterinary care and that vet care should be sought for any serious health issues. I didn’t really find a problem with it.
Then it sounds like a lot of BS advertising, since he promotes his stuff all the time as an alternative to going to your vet. What “secrets” were revealed, and why should people pay him, without a license to practice, for advice they could go to a practicing vet?
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I have recently joined Dr Jones’ Vet Secrets and I have to say that I have found his advice sound and effective. My dog has trachea problems and in her 16th year we are mindful she has to be treated with great care. This is a very stressful condition and the vet could only prescribe tablets. Imagine trying to administer tablets to a small dog who has difficulty with her windpipe, therefore swallowing, even when the tablet is crushed finely and given with liquid. After I spoke to my chemist and found the product was available in liquid without a prescription at a fraction of the cost I told my vet and they claimed not to know about the liquid. I can’t help but think that the $23 a month plus prescription fees was their primary motivation. I happen to agree with Andrew that vets over-charge and over-prescribe and the natural remedies he advocates have been far and above anything my vet has recommended.
I have been researching and reading the reports, as well. I find that Dr. Jones is spot on with his therapies with sound advice. He tells you straight upfront that there are many things to note and pay attention to withour animals, and that under certain circumstances a veterinarian is most definately warranted. However, to give your pets their best chance for a healthy life, his advise is perfect. We don’t need to go to the vet and subject our furry friends to unnecessary tests and harmful treatments for every thing that comes along. His sensible approach to daily caring for our pets will ensure them the healthiest, happy lives. I urge you to give him a try. Just because he isnt in practice anymore, doesnt make his advice any less valuable. He knows what he is talking about.
I cannot say much about Dr. Jones except that I have recently stumbled across his videos, and was intriqued by the one on how to care for your dog with ACL “if you cannot afford surgery”. I have been doing ‘some’ research since my dog was diagnosed with an ACL injury just 2 days ago (and certainly will do a lot more before making any decisions), and have found much (before seeing his videos) that support exactly what he has said and more. Also since my dog is small and a diabetic, with gastrointestinal issues, I shy away from surgery. Other reasons I shy away, is we have gone through 4 Veterinary Offices with multiple Veterinarians and have finally realized (at least in my area) that most of them are a BUSINESS FIRST, and will sell you on a myriad of things to rule out, even if no symptoms are present. They back prescription dog foods, which they sell from their office which have done nothing but wreack havoc on my pups digestive issues, and yet swear by them, and demean what I have found on my own which has helped her tremendously. Now I question and research everything that is suggested by a Veterinarian, and get second opinions from specialists who usually support my skepticism, and encourage my researching and advocating for my sweet pup. Since my pup was diagnosed with diabetes in Dec. of 2013 we have spent thousands of dollars trying to get her regulated. I would say half of that was wasted on bad advice from Veterinarians that were more concerned about what they could charge us. So if you find some advice from Dr. Jones, or your Veterinarian for your pup, I suggest that you research til your eyes fall out before making any decisions 🙂
I find his knowledge spot on with other holistic vets and integrative vets. Alternative medicine is a choice in some vet teaching hospitals. Accupuncture used to be thought as quackery and so was the use of probiotics. Both are used by traditional vets and traditional medicine today.
Just like anything be knowledgeable of your meds whether it is holistic or traditional. I have been told by traditional vets that an antibiotic for my dog was safe and harmless. It destroyed his esophagus. The vet forgot to mention that could be a side effect. Well that side effect cost was my dog’s life. So I have learnedyou must do your rrsearch first and know your choices for treatment.
You are essentially saying he agrees with other people who believe the same things he believes, which is neither surprising nor a validation of those beliefs. Probiotics are and have been studied in a perfectly conventional scientific way, as well as being recommended irrationally by alternative vets for things they likely do not do, so they are hardly an example of alternative medical beliefs being proven true. Similarly, most of what is claimed for acupuncture is not scientifically validated, and it is not at all a routine conventional therapy. I have written about this extensively since I am certified in medical acupuncture myself, and again it is not an example of an alternative therapy that has somehow proven itself scientifically, regardless of whether or not it is accepted in the mainstream. And, of course, you choose to mention the potential harm of antibiotics but not the potential harm of acupuncture and probiotics, while you ignore the incredible benefits antibiotics have provided. You clearly have strong beliefs based on your experiences and feelings, but none of this is evidence that Dr. Jones is right about anything.
There is room for both types of medicine.
In the United States people are using more types of alternative medicine to avoid side effects of tradional medicine and as a cheaper way to help with all kinds of health issues. Dr. Oz, a well known medical doctor,educates people on his TV show on alternative ways to heal the body and he is not a quack. Why cannot pets benefit from alternative choices too? I do believe our society is seeing there is a place for both types of medicine. If you see proof something works you are going to want to tell others about it. If Green Bean Coffee Extract helps a fatty liver are
you going to keep it a secret? If Cranberry capsules help certain types of bacteria
from adhearing to the bladder to prevent certain types of bladder infections are
you going to tell people. Just like traditional medicine there are things that do
work in alternative medicine for people so why would it be different for animals?
Why are people buying more organic foods? We are a society that is heading toward a future of more alternative means of healing because scientist and research is now starting to see there is a place for alternative medicine.
Except that most of these don’t work or do have side effects. The fact that people believe this doesn’t make it true or a good idea. That requires real evidence.
Did you know he’s been compelled to testify before Congress for promoting a bogus weight loss remedy and is generally regarded as an unreliable source and an embarrassment to the medical profession?
They may or they may not, but again whether these methods help or harm has to be proven, not simply taken on faith or based on anecdotes and mpty rhetoric. When looked at closely and scientifically, most so-called “alternatives” are useless.
Because they are easily misled and do things compatible with their overall ideology regardless of whether the facts support them or not.
You may wish to believe this, but again, the evidence doesn’t support that it’s true.
Ann Lavoy said: There is room for both types of medicine.
Not exactly. In the words of a respected infectious disease specialist (human med): “If you integrate fantasy with reality, you do not instantiate reality. If you mix cow pie with apple pie, it does not make the cow pie taste better; it makes the apple pie worse.” – Mark Crislip, MD
In the United States people are using more types of alternative medicine to avoid side effects of tradional medicine and as a cheaper way to help with all kinds of health issues.
Actually, people are paying more for holistic/alternative care initially and even more when they discover those methods didn’t work, thus the additional expense of traditional medicine to treat what alternative couldn’t. Likewise, people often forego or delay real medicine in lieu of alternatives, which often cost them their health and their lives.
Dr. Oz, a well known medical doctor,educates people on his TV show on alternative ways to heal the body and he is not a quack.
Dr Oz was at one time, a respected cardiologist/surgeon. He essentially ruined his own reputation and credibility by promoting pseudoscience on tv. Dr Oz does not educate on tv, he promotes pseudoscience and manufacturers of supplements, herbs and other products that can indeed harm people.
Why cannot pets benefit from alternative choices too?
Because there is little to no valid research suggesting that alternatives are safe or effective for companion animals, yet there is plenty of evidence of the harm herbs and pseudoscience concoctions can cause to both humans and pets. Furthermore, cats for instance, cannot metabolize certain substances and are at risk for serious side effects and even death due to their inability to metabolize so many compounds. Extrapolating from human medicine to pets is not always in the best interests of the pets, especially when CAM is utilized without evidence to support it’s use.
If you see proof something works you are going to want to tell others about it.
Anecdotes. Does not equal data. Does not equal the scientific method to prove or disprove something works that is equal to or better than current medicine.
Why are people buying more organic foods?
Because it’s the latest fad. There is little evidence that “organic” foods are better than non-organic. People seem to want to spend twice as much money for organic food because they were mislead to believe it was somehow better, while dismissing the facts about organic farming (pesticide use, production or manufacturing processes, costs, etc).
We are a society that is heading toward a future of more alternative means of healing because scientist and research is now starting to see there is a place for alternative medicine.
Do you not find it ironic how alternatives never cured disease, never extended lives, never virtually eradicated fatal disease epidemics, and never progressed to proving its credulous claims, all over the span of hundreds of years?
Yet, science did. Advances in real medicine did. Today’s “alternatives” are essentially unchanged from a hundred years ago when fraudsters sold fake elixors in the back of their wagons at county fairs to vulnerable people. I shudder to think you would accept that as “medicine”.
“Dr. Oz, a well known medical doctor,educates people on his TV show on alternative ways to heal the body and he is not a quack”.
This is a joke, right? If not, this is your opinion. Opinions are not facts.
I agree there is room for altenative care methods. I took my dogs to several vets and spent lots of money and the meds they prescribed my Shepard made things worse. Desperate I stumbled across Dr Jones online and found his advice and methods sound. His advice has helped all three of my dogs for the fraction of the price. I also saw that other Vets at that college did far worse things and got fined nothing in comparison. I’m not anti traditional meds. However, in some cases non traditional can be a better alternative.
Just last month I came across a YouTube video from Dr. Andrew Jones. I have since subscribed to his channel and have watched many of his videos. I have an 8 1/2 year old pug who has suffered from allergies his entire life. From recipes he freely gives, I was able to make up a shampoo for him and an ear cleaning solution. Oh my gosh! My little boy is so much happier. No itching, redness gone, black spots almost entirely gone, ears smell good and are clean and bacteria free. He just went to the vets two days ago. The doctor is amazed at how good he looks. No more odor, in fact he smells great! His ear infection is gone at last! Thank you Dr. Jones. I just wish I had found him sooner. I will still go to my regular vets for annual check ups but there is so much I can do for my boy right here at home. My next steps are home remedies for flea control so I can forever stop from the horrible flea medication poison. I for one hope Dr. Jones is very blessed for freely sharing so much valuable information to us with furry children.
@Traci Hildebrant ,
Just so you know, home remedies for flea control is asking for trouble and even worse, ineffective and potential danger for your dog. I.e., garlic – no evidence whatsoever it repels fleas. I.e., essential oils – no evidence whatsoever it repels fleas. I.e., the majority of all other “home remedies” – no evidence whatsoever they repel, nor eradicate fleas.
Yet, all of them have the potential to be deadly. Garlic – causes hemolytic anemia if given in certain amounts or for an extended period of time. Essential oils – dermal, inhalation and oral ingestion can cause skin burns, oral/esophageal ulcerations and burns, and all can be deadly. Essential oils are not intended for medicinal purposes, least of all in pets.
Those evil poisons however, like Advantage, Frontline, etc, can however, be beneficial in eradicating fleas and ticks (these latter of which can cause serious autoimmune issues).
But, I’m sure the good Dr. Jones would pony up to remedy any complaints (hey, that home remedy and that recipe you gave me didn’t work!), right?
I appreciate everyone’s posts, it reminds me how human we all are whether licensed or not there is not guarantee of anything. Buyer beware applies to everything, it is a fallen world and we need to take the best of it. Most of what we need is provided naturally in this world like food, and yet we still need medicine. What we need to do is research and find what we can try because no 2 people/pets are alike, pray on it and decide your options. Everytime I follow someone I am often reminded that they are not a god, just human with flaws. It is good we all check each other out and have agencies to procure certain things a protect us from over protection. In the end we should remember simple thing like food is medicine and let medicine be our food, but also medicine administered can also show love and care for another. Take everything with a grain of salt but also take your salt with you. Keep posting and I will pray for everyone involved because we all have something valuable to give even Dr Jones, before pointing fingers we must remember 3 will be pointing back at us. Skepticism is good but also be practical because it is too easy to be a septic.
I think the key point here is that individual human beings are all very fallible. However, the conclusion you draw from that, that we are best off if we do independent research and prayer and then trust our own judgment seems to miss the point. The reason science works better than other ways of deciding what is true is precisely because it doesn’t rely on flawed individual observation and judgment. It is a community process in which people challenge their own assumptions and those of others and then use the evidence from research, not personal opinion, to help settle questions. True humility means realizing that even what seems obvious to our senses may not be true, and sometimes we have to put aside our own feelings and experiences when the evidence is strong enough tat we have misunderstood nature. That, sadly, is the opposite of what Dr. Jones recommends. Instead, he sells his experiences and opinions as fact even when they are contradicted by the evidence and the views of most other veterinarians.
And while being a vet does not make one infallible by any means, we should also recognize that specialized knowledge and expertise do count for something. People seem quite ready to question their doctor’s judgment or that of medical scientists, yet we wouldn’t think of walking into the cockpit and questioning our airline pilot’s judgment and trying to do that job ourselves. Sometimes, humility also means recognizing that none of us can be experts on every subject, and that means trusting that the experts we hire to guide us know things we don’t know.
Yes yes yes. Was it not vets at the behest of big pharma leaning on the public to get their dog vaccinated every year (so they make more money) but now……this is not really necessary and probably harmful! Like my “qualified vet” who gasped when I said I scraped tartar of my dogs teeth and saying “I could scratch the enamel” pleeease!
There are some good vets and some in it for the money. As soon as you say “Yes my dog is insured” – then all the tests and treatments are rolled out.
One of my Pointers had bad arthritis in a front shoulder (all seen and checked by a top vet). I showed him Dr Jones Ultimate Canine and said I would try it to see if it helps – it does help. He is pretty fine while it is added to his food and relapses if I run out.
I found this blog looking for evidence that Dr. Jones’ products are or are not all they are touted to be. I believe I found my evidence that I shouldn’t buy this product. I also found a highly-charged atmosphere of some people perhaps overly reliant on alternative medicines on one side and others adamantly touting science on the other. I think both sides of these posts are missing the core issue.
The alternative vs science argument isn’t even valid. Science absolutely can prove or disprove the effectiveness of so-called alternative medicines, along with providing a specific list of suggested dosages and possible side effects. But who decides what is labeled alternative?
For example, feverfew absolutely is highly effective for a significant percentage of people in the treatment of migraines (http://umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/herb/feverfew), and you can grow it in your yard. It is a thousand year old remedy, and science has studied it and found substantial evidence of benefits. So-called alternative medicine and science worked together! But have you seen a product based on feverfew anywhere in a physical retail store?
Moringa is one of mother nature’s most potent forms of nutrition, containing 18 amino acids including all 9 essential amino acids, and the tree can be grown with some extra care in many parts of the world. It has dozens of scientifically-proven benefits. And yet I have not found one physical retail store that sells moringa.
And here is the core issue: big pharma decides what is alternative with their massive marketing budget and tight control over product distribution channels, both medical and consumer. Big pharma will never create a medicine based on natural medicines because there is no money to be made on a product that people can grow themselves. Big pharma will manufacture some type of synthetic substitute, one that can be patented and a high price charged for, all the while denouncing ‘alternative medicines’ at every opportunity. Yes, big pharma has created products that are highly important to humankind through incredible science. I believe it also keeps proven, effective natural products from appearing in the market, thereby requiring consumers to purchase solely their products.
Again, science has found many of the most important solutions for the ailments of humankind throughout history. No doubt. Science is an avid fighter on the side of natural medicines. Science is also an avid fighter on the side of big pharma. Science is everywhere. The only thing I would call an alternative medicine is something that has never been tested by scientific method. Which probably includes Dr. Jone’s Ultimate whatever it is. Just because the ingredients are known, does not mean throwing them all together makes an effective product. There are contraindications, there are dosage combinations, and there are necessary encapsulation methods for those ingredients. It has to be tested to see how effective it really is.
To close this long post.. I was very turned off by the ‘science’ viewpoint that there is no evidence that organic products can in any way be superior to commercial mass-manufactured products. This caused a great loss in the strength of those persons’ opinions. There are literally hundreds of studies that prove conclusively that quality organic-sourced products contain more nutrients than their equivalent commercial mass-farmed counterparts. Such as this study that organic milk contains on average 62% more omega-3s: http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0082429
Also there are studies that indicate organic vegetables do in fact contain significantly less pesticides. There are studies that have shown that the heavy metals in pesticides survive through the stomach, circulate through the blood and continue on into every portion of the body and get deposited permanently in some locations where they cause terrific damage to the body.
The typical mass-manufactured retails foods for humans are largely unhealthy (McDonalds or white bread anyone?), just as the same are for dogs and cats. That is why we all need education on how to choose the products that are best for us and best for our pets, or find a scientifically reliable source to help us.
I believe it is a fact that moringa is something every person should have in their daily diet. Science agrees, but big pharma won’t let the message get out. So I have no way of knowing what moringa products are quality, and I must grow it myself (using 100% chemical-free organic methods). I also think my research has indicated that Earthborn grain-free dog foods are great for my dogs. That is what they eat.
The alternative people and science people need to partner, as this is the only hope for shutting down their confusopoly. We all need a method to understand which big pharma products are truly a miracle of science and which are simply the expensive big pharma alternative medicine to something nature has already provided.
Several points worth responding to here:
1. Science can be applied to so-called “alternative” treatments in many cases, and herbs and supplements are the prime examples. However, the problem is more about a clash of philosophies, which I have discussed in detail here. Essentially, many proponents of CAM choose not to apply the same standards of evidence, the scientific standards, to their products because ultimately they reject the basic philosophical principles behind science, and they value the outsider or alternative status as a core part of their methods. Science has been applied to many CAM practices (most dramatically, homeopathy) and proven them to be ineffective, yet CAM proponents will not abandon them. They are happy to accept scientific evidence which appears to confirm their beliefs, but they ignore or dismiss that which does not. So while I used to believe the solution to this debate was a s simple as studying CAM scientifically and accepting or rejecting individual treatments according to the evidence, that turns out to be naive and not consistent with the belief systems underlying much alternative medicine.
2. The idea that some mysterious conspiracy known as “Big Pharma” is somehow preventing the use of scientifically proven natural remedies is nonsense. For one thing, such remedies are easily available and used. For another, they are most certainly profitable, as herbs and supplements lone represent multi-billion dollar industries, not to mention chiro, acupuncture, hoemopathy, naturopathy, and others. So it makes no sense to say these remedies are ignored because they can’t make anybody money since they clearly do. Again, those which develop reasonable supporting evidence (e.g. fish oils) are produced, sold, and recommended by conventional medicine. The problem has more to do with the level of evidence and, again, the desire of alt med proponents to appear to be mavericks working “outside the establishment” even as they form corporations to make billions selling untested herbs and supplements. The pharmaceutical industry does all kinds of bad things and needs to be closely watched and regulated, but the Big Pharma Conspiracy argument about alternative medicine holds no water.
3. As for organic produce, one study does not settle any complex scientific subject. However, several comprehensive reviews of the vast body of literature have been done, and none support any nutritional or health benefit to organically produced foods. Here are some resources discussing the evidence concerning health effects and nutrient content of organically produced foods: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8
4. I will also point out is that there is a problem with the term “processed foods” as used here to refer to commercial pet foods. In the human food system, processed foods are designed and marketed for convenience and taste appeal, with nutritional value given little consideration. However, commercial pet foods are specifically designed and formulated with nutritional adequacy in mind, as well as palatability. The nutrient profile, digestibility, bioavailability, and so on are all specifically assessed and part of the process of creating the diets, and there are established nutritional standards with at least moderate evidentiary support that food must meet. So such diets are quite a different thing from the convenience foods that humans eat.
Daniel, you make some very valid points. “The alternative people and science people need to partner, as this is the only hope for shutting down their confusopoly”
But I think both sides are so polarized at this point, it remains unlikely.
The materialistic science folks are too arrogant, and the alternative may be to anti-everything.
Maybe if the science folks would spend more time in contact with animals, actually trying to diagnose, instead of just passing medications as the answer to all life’s woes or earning more titles and degrees we could gain some ground.
And nothing helps reduce polarization more than hyperbolic and inaccurate cliches. This kind of characterization of how medicine works is just a straw man that bears no resemblance to how any of the 30 vets I work with practice in the real world.
“And nothing helps reduce polarization more than hyperbolic and inaccurate cliches. This kind of characterization of how medicine works is just a straw man that bears no resemblance to how any of the 30 vets I work with practice in the real world.
Well, you and the 30 may be the exception , than. But my experience has shown me that it is much more than a cliche and a straw man. I have the paid bills, to scientifically prove it.
Many years ago I got my copy of veterinary secrets & used it for 2 dogs and 2 cats. I never had the ACL surgery the conventional vet wanted to do for $3000 but my little maltese recovered with chiropractic and acupuncture treatment. I kept my other maltese going until she was 16 when she was diagnosed with “Cushings Disease” at age 10 and conventional vets gave her about 2 years. I stopped feeding commercial pet food and used the recipes Veterinary Secrets provided. The people doing the scamming here are the conventional vets who want to do reams of tests that almost always come back with inconclusive results. My experience with Dr. Andrew Jones advise was positive and not money gauging. I can’t say that for most conventional vets.
Why Anecdotes Can’t Be Trusted
Perhaps you would be so kind as to explain the presence of the new drug Apoquel in the traditional vet’s repertoire, when scientific studies on the drug’s safety & effectiveness were conducted for a full SEVEN DAYS before the drug was approved for mass market. It was more loosely followed up on for days 8-30, but the placebo drug dog participants had already dropped out after 7 days. Anecdotal reports of dogs getting lymphoma after using Apoquel are beginning to appear. Of course there’s no credibility in anecdotal “evidence”. So, I’ll just refer to what the company who makes Apoquel says in their ads: Apoquel is contraindicated in dogs who have an existing cancer because it can make it much worse quickly. Now, that’s interesting that a drug scientifically trialed for seven days would give such a warning. How much more do they know that they are not sharing? Besides which, common sense can tell you that neither you nor your traditional vet can certify your dog as cancer-free before he starts the Apoquel. Yet, it was all scientifically done through proper channels. I wonder why a drug company would send something to market so quickly? Oh, could it be the $2 per tablet price tag (take twice daily for two weeks, then daily… forever?) Or the monthly shot form which is a little cheaper ( you pay your vet to do it, so it winds up about the same price).
You are right–there is no conspiracy among big pharma companies–they are too self-centered to organize. Each is solely focused on profits above everything else, which basically has the same effect as conspiracy. Now, you are free to play semantics with my comment, find typos, criticize my use of all caps, quote marks, etc. But as you are quick to point out to others here, none of that tactic proves anything. Thanks for taking my comment. I refused Apoquel. My dog is not better yet, but I am willing to combine traditional medication (side effects serious & well-known) that has been proven longer with other strategies that are recommended by both traditional & alternative vets the world over. I only have one little boy, and he’s very precious to us.
The main problem with your comment is simply that you are factually wrong. There have been several safety an efficacy studies involving hundreds of dogs, and some have been followed well over 1 year on the medication. This evidence is readily available, so it shouldn’t be hard to find the real facts.
Pre-market clinical studies can never be perfect since we would have no medicines available to use if we required a decade of study following thousands of patients before approving a drug. Additional post-market surveillance is necessary to fully assess the safety and efficacy of all medicines. Medications with a longer history of use will always be better understood than new medications. But unless you want to stop the invention of new medicines and use only what we have now forever, we have to employ some reasonable, scientific process to test new therapies. And while flawed in many ways, these processes are a lot more rigorous than you suggest.
The evidence for Apoquel is certainly better than you allege, and it is better than that for nearly all of the alternatives people like Dr. Jones recommend, which often don’t get tested at all. I am certain it will have some risks as well as benefits since any effective treatment will, and I am equally certain we know more about those risks and benefits because of the regulatory study requirements than we do for the untested alternative therapies
Here are some resources for those open-minded enough to look at the real facts:
FDA FOIA Summary for Apoquel
Long-term compassionate use of oclacitinib in dogs with atopic and allergic skin disease: safety, efficacy and quality of life.
The currently published studies on oclacitinib from PubMed
Both herbs etc and traditional medication carry side effects. The problem lies in things like preservatives etc. You have to be careful with both..it’s a personal choice. As in breast milk or bottle, many will argue which is best but choice is yours. Research ?
Of course everyone is free to make their own choices. But facts are facts, and not everything people believe or are told by the likes of Dr. Jones is true. If you make a choice based on a misconception or misleading information, then the freedom of your choice is limited. And too often “research” is used to mean reading other people’s opinions on the internet, without regard for methods of determining what information is reliable and truthful and what is not. Such “research” often leads people into false beliefs and choices not in their own true best interests.
I agree. After all, only someone convicted would give up their license to pursue their own business. If he willingly gave up a practice because he genuinely believes he can help in another/alternative way then so be it. There is most certainly a place for holistic medicine. I’ve seen it work in my life and the lives of my pets.
My Springer has had recurrent ear infections. I have questioned the use of corticosteroids in the med I have gotten from my vet. when there are good drugs available OTC. Dr Jones recommended one of these, mycostatin as well as a standby home remedy cider vinegar/ water. It is an established fact that yeasts do not grow in an acid environment. If the ph is kept slightly the organism doesn’t grow.
Unfortunately, this is an oversimplification. Yeats live naturally as part of the normal flora of the dog ear. Overgrowth is due to abnormalities in the environment of the ear created by an underlying problem, usually systemic allergies. Ear washes with mild acids in them and antifungal medications can be one element in managing the problem, but they are purely symptomatic and not addressing the underlying cause. I would consider seeing a veterinary dermatologist to investigate ways to manage the root cause of the issue.
Interesting. I’ve had his book “Veterinary Secrets Revealed,” for years & have used it to treat my pets for years. Without his information I would’ve spent a lot of money going to a vet for simple things. I believe western medicine & essentially eastern type medicine (aka holistic) both help heal. I’m unsure as to how what he’s doing is quackery but you can’t make everyone happy. Someone’s always going to be unhappy & want you to follow a specific direction. I’m grateful for his book & sorry to hear about any witch hunt situation he found himself in. Not everyone is going to be “Woke.”
I agree with the last person, all we have to do is pray, and God will direct us, after all He creates everything, and He is the Healer.
I have a let myself, and I do watch the videos. Blessings.
I’m unsure as to how what he’s doing is quackery but you can’t make everyone happy. Someone’s always going to be unhappy & want you to follow a specific direction.>>>>
one definition of quackery is the promotion of unproven therapy in the market place.
“The burden of proof to show that an intervention works must be held by those who develop a new therapy, and by practitioners who profit from the therapy before it is introduced. ”
a new physician ethic. BioSocieties advance online publication, 6 February 2012; doi:10.1057/biosoc.2011.25
Keywords: medical reversal; contradicted findings; evidence-based medicine; burden of proof; COURAGE trial; sham surgery
Or maybe Dr. Jones is empowering clients to treat some problems on their own instead of going to the vet for every little thing.
That’s what he would like everyone to think, but it is not empowering to be convinced to do things that don’t work and to be discouraged from seeking medical care when it is needed.
But Dr. Jones doesn’t discourage people from going to the vet; if you watch his videos he tells people to go to the vet. But like a mom who gives her kid chicken soup when he has a cold instead of going to emergency, Dr. Jones is just offering some tips so that pet owners don’t run to the vet for every little thing. Dr. Jones does not discourage pet owners from going to the vet. “Do things that don’t work”; that is a broad statement that isn’t accurate. Many people have stated on this forum that Dr. Jones has given them advice that does work, so why discount them; is that respecting the client; it sounds like a paternalistic way to treat someone, “Oh, you think you it works but you really don’t, I know best, not you”. In humans, doctors empower people to have rest, eat properly, put a bandage on their own scrape, drink plenty of liquids instead of telling them, “No, only we can decide, not you, never you, we wear the lab coat so we know best and that means for everything, so always, always run to the doctor for everything”. A doctor told me to take Echinacea and it helped; that was something I could do for myself. Dr. Jones respects veterinarians; he has said so on his channel, he acknowledges that there are very good vets out there but he also points out that some aren’t so good (just like in any profession), so the consumer (all of us), need to be aware, whether we are going to a vet, a doctor, a lawyer, a dentist, a therapist, a carpenter; there are good ones and bad ones.
Dr Andrew Jones is wonderful. He suffered a LOT for wanting to make veterinary care honest for the public. To call holistic medicine quackery shows who’s the quack. The man is DEDICATED to the welfare of animals and he wants to put knowledge in the hands of the pet guardian so that we can know what’s right, do things ourselves often, and know how to read our animals. He’s a saint!
Nonsense. He’s “suffered,” in the sense of giving up his license to practice, for his arrogant and dishonest attacks on other veterinarians. This hasn’t apparently harmed his ability to make money by selling his ideas, including those that are unproven or untrue.
Now, 8 years later, more pet owners, myself included, are looking for less chemical and more natural treatments for our pets. Dr Jones’ methods seems pretty sensible to me.
Very well said. After rx meds failed in one of my dogs with severe ringworm, I have been using his advice for use of Apple Cider Vinegar with amazing results. So simple. I think practicing vets don’t like him because he uses common sense holistic home remedies.
I’m in agreement here. Wish I’d found him sooner too, rather than subject my GSD with horrible allergies to numerous meds and dietary changes that made no difference. Grain free, along with flax seed oil (as he recommended) and apple cider vinegar (as he recommended) have made all the difference in the world. His coat is shiny and he never scratches anymore.
Actually, he uses unproven and often ineffective remedies and claims he has some magic secret wisdom other vets don’t have that he can sell. Dr. Jones is frequently arrogant and factually wrong, and as I’ve pinted out many times before, testimonials like this don’t change that.
Why Anecdotes Can’t Be Trusted
All the thousands of pet owners who have had excellent results from medications, immunotherapy, and diet change and who have found no relief from grain-free diets (which are merely a marketing gimmick) would disagree with you. I see hundreds of these cases a year, so if anecdotes mattered, I could produce far more of them, but that isn’t how we figure out what is really true in medicine.
I believe in common sense, and he’s spot on with common sense advice, which isn’t a secret. I continue to follow him, as what he suggests seems to work with my dogs.
“Common Sense” was used for thousands of years as medicine. It was common sense that bleeding people would cure them. It was common sense that women got hysterical every month because of their period. it was common sense that tomato killed you.
Yeah common sense is a great thing when it comes to medicine
Yes I agree the vets are mad. Dr. Jones sounds legit. The vets charge ridiculous amts of money. I prefer home remedies if its something none serious. Thank you Dr. Jones.
I do animal rescue. For the past 5 years I have devoted my time to cats. I care for a feral cat colony. I domesicate feral kittens. I am constantly bringing new cats/kittens into my home from off the streets. So let me tell you I have dealt with my share of fleas. I use to spend THOUSANDS a year on these animals. I had to learn ways to save money. So I researched ideas, studies, etc. And I have to say that it IS possible to get rid of fleas (and keep them gone) without the use of pesticides and expensive treatments. A]ple cidar vinegar in the water they drink. Rubbing coconut oil into their skin once a week. Banana peels in/around their bedding and where they hang out. Ecodust is also a good product – which can be made with ground egg shells. I had an infestation so bad that just walking through one room would have your legs covered in hundreds of fleas. It took time and energy. But with less than $20 I was able to get rid of those little bloodsuckers within 2 months. Completely. It IS possible.