54 responses

  1. ellen
    January 6, 2011

    i wonder how many pet owners actually fall for this quackery?

    Healing Halter™
    http://www.holisticvetpetcare.com/healinghalter.htm
    “There are 6 healing energy principles incorporated in the Healing Halter™:
    Color Therapy, Quartz Crystal Mandalas, Pyramid Configuration Energy, Heart Chakra Energy, The Light Invocation, and Anti-radiation bead.”

    Reply

  2. Dr. Narda
    January 6, 2011

    What’s worse, I think, is how many holistic practitioners do.

    Reply

  3. art malernee dvm
    January 6, 2011

    What’s worse, I think, is how many holistic practitioners do.>>>>

    how may fall for it or how many sell it?
    art malernee dvm
    fl lic 1820

    Reply

  4. Dr. Narda
    January 6, 2011

    I don’t know number-wise, but the American Holistic Veterinary Medical Association is aggressively lobbying state boards put pressure on the RACE committee to approve just about anything holistic practitioners wish to teach.

    http://www.ahvma.org/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=134&Itemid=58

    http://www.ahvma.org/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=135&Itemid=58

    This type of pressure is what Skeptvet is talking about, in part. We are seeing it unfold before our eyes.

    Reply

  5. ellen
    January 6, 2011

    Dr. Narda said: “What’s worse, I think, is how many holistic practitioners do.”

    omg. that’s scary.

    Reply

  6. ellen
    January 6, 2011

    Dr. Narda said: “…the American Holistic Veterinary Medical Association is aggressively lobbying state boards put pressure on the RACE committee to approve just about anything holistic practitioners wish to teach.”

    this is an unsettling trend.

    hopefully the veterinary schools are teaching critical thinking and evidence-based medicine to the new generation of future practitioners. i understand that some schools have “holistic clubs” which are student chapters of the american holistic veterinary medical association. are there any student chapters of the evidence-based veterinary medicine association?

    Reply

    • skeptvet
      January 6, 2011

      There are not currrently any EBVMA Student Chapters that I am aware of. However, integration of EBVM into the veterinary professional curriculum is a key element of the EBVMA strategic plan. There is a standing committee dedicated to this task that is working towards this goal:

      Veterinary Curriculum/University Liaison
      Chair: Amy Kapatkin

      The first goal of this subcommittee is to survey all AVMA approved veterinary school curriculums on how they integrate and teach EBVM at their school. The second goal is to help Veterinary schools either establish or facilitate teaching of EBVM in their curriculum. The third goal is to promote EBVM as an integral component of al professional course at the Veterinary schools. This subcommittee is interested in volunteers from the general membership that can help with goal # 1 that is led by Dr. Virginia Fajt. Any interested members should contact Amy Kapatkin or Stuart Turner to get involved.

      And as Dr. Robinson illustrates, there are individual faculty members dedicated to EBVM who are introducing these concepts and skills to their students. I agree that the real hope for the future of effective, science-based veterinary medicine is to train veterinary students to think critically about all the interventions they are taught to emply, conventional and alternative. The tradition of opinion-based medicine and the habit of doing things the way one’s mentors in school did them or the way a charismatic conference speaker advises needs to be challenged, and hoefully this will improve conventional veterinary medicine while also keeping irrational and ineffective approaches marginalized.

      Reply

  7. Dr. Narda
    January 6, 2011

    I don’t know of any student EBVMA chapters, and I’m also not that sure how much critical thinking and EBM emphasis there is in veterinary school. I encourage the third-year PVM students in my Critical Overview of Complementary and Alternative Medicine class to not only consider the scientific/evidential support for CAM treatments, but to apply that lens to conventional therapies as well. Seems subversive to ask them to question whether a TPLO is in fact better than an extracapsular repair for cruciate injury and if so why, but I do anyway.

    I fear that EBM is not currently as “sexy” as what AHVMA peddles, but I think it just needs more exposure. I have found that once students get a taste of critical thinking, they begin applying it in creative ways, such as questioning the food company reps about the claims for their diets.

    We definitely have an urgent need to raise awareness about the truth about CAM in veterinary medicine and to “stop giving alternative medicine a free ride” as was written in an NEJM editorial a while back.

    Reply

  8. ellen
    January 6, 2011

    AHVMA letter to state boards: “If a veterinarian does not know about them [CAVM], or dismisses them, the public has no recourse except to turn to lay practitioners, which can result in harm to their pets.”

    that’s a clever appeal. snake oil is snake oil, no matter who sells it. unfortunately, gullible pet owners are more likely to believe in a bogus therapy if it’s “sold” by a veterinarian (appeal to authority). misdiagnosis and delay in proper treatment can harm pets too.

    Reply

  9. Narda Robinson
    January 6, 2011

    “Unfortunately, gullible pet owners are more likely to believe in a bogus therapy if it’s “sold” by a veterinarian (appeal to authority). misdiagnosis and delay in proper treatment can harm pets too.”

    Good point.

    And, CAVM instructors and self-proclaimed masters can still teach their courses, regardless of RACE approval.

    Reply

  10. art malernee dvm
    January 7, 2011

    Seems subversive to ask them to question whether a TPLO is in fact better than an extracapsular repair for cruciate injury and if so why, but I do anyway.>>>>>>

    lets hope you let them know about cruciate surgery knee scars that denote a unproven remedy. Many respected academic veterinary experts believe that TPLO offers a faster and fuller return of function. But published proof of that theory is lacking, prompting some to avoid the procedure. For instance, surgeons don’t perform it at the University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine, says Gail Smith, chairman of the department of clinical research. He calls TPLO “a fashionable procedure.”

    Still, TPLO now is used for an estimated 50 percent of cruciate-ligament procedures in the U.S., and by all accounts that percentage is growing.

    Such treatments have helped fuel a doubling of the number of veterinary surgeons in the U.S. in the last decade to 1,219 from 660. It is also the largest factor in a near doubling of the average annual cost of veterinary surgery visits — to $574 in 2004 from $289 in 2000, says the American Pet Products Manufacturers Association.
    art malernee dvm
    fla lic 1820

    Reply

  11. Narda Robinson
    January 7, 2011

    I agree with you that there’s a problem, Art. It saddens me greatly when I hear about clients who cannot afford the TPLO procedure (but could likely afford an extracapsular repair or other approach) and consequently euthanize their dog because they aren’t given other options.

    Reply

  12. ellen
    January 7, 2011

    this is an interesting discussion. i thought the TPLO procedure was reserved for large dogs. my dog had successful surgery for a complete CCL rupture; the ACVS board-certified surgeon recommended extracapsular repair and patella trochleoplasty.

    Reply

    • skeptvet
      January 7, 2011

      Well, there is pretty good evidence that TPLO is an effective surgery for restoring comfort and function and minimizing DJD progression in dogs with CCL ruptures. The question which is not clearly answered is whether it is superior to less aggressive/expensive surgical approaches or in what subset of these dogs no surgery at all is just as effective. The problem with TPLO is not that it isn’t a reasonable therapy, but that it has been widely adotped in advance of definitive evidence that it is better than the cheaper and less invasive alternatives. It may very well be, but the strength of some people’s conviction in this conclusion is probable greater than the strength of the evidence to support it.

      Unfortnately, in cases of reasonable, science-based approaches just as in cases of more questionable alternative approaches, people have a tendency to adhere rigidly to their opinions without sufficient evidence or even in the face of contradictory evidence. Once something is widely accepted, questioning it tends to generate hostility even if there isn’t really a solid evidence-based justification for the practice. I think that’s ust human nature, and part of our task in improving veterinary medicine is to help vets understand the superiority of objective scientific evidence over opinion, authority, and tradition, within conventional as well as alternative approaches.

      Reply

  13. art malernee dvm
    January 7, 2011

    my dog had successful surgery for a complete CCL rupture;>>>

    your dog got better after surgery.

    Some vets in other countries think cruciate surgery works only because the pain from surgery gets the dog to rest the leg to let it heal itself. They inject the dogs own blood into the joint to help. If true maybe thats why joint injections of stem cells into joints seem to work so well.
    art malernee dvm
    fla lic 1820

    Reply

  14. ellen
    January 7, 2011

    Dr. Malernee said: “your dog got better after surgery.”

    yes, my dog had a swift and complete recovery.

    Dr. Malernee said: “Some vets in other countries think cruciate surgery works only because the pain from surgery gets the dog to rest the leg to let it heal itself.”

    that’s interesting. i thought conservative management only works if there is a partial tear, not a complete rupture. my vet told me that an ECR procedure would result in less osteoarthritis and minimize the chance of later tearing. is that true?

    Reply

  15. art malernee dvm
    January 7, 2011

    is that true?>>> i do not true false questions. Lets just say its not been proven and if its been disproven the study is in a desk somewhere unpublished.

    my vet told me that an ECR procedure would result in less osteoarthritis >>>>

    Numerous human studies with follow-up periods of 5 years or longer do not support the theory that surgical treatment is the best treatment for restoring knee function. In fact, in 1994 a study examining scintigraphic and radiographic changes in knees managed surgically versus non-surgically found that 5 years after the injury the reconstructed knees showed markedly greater degeneration than those treated non-surgically.
    *****

    CRUCIATE DISEASE – WHAT CAN WE LEARN FROM THE HUMAN LITERATURE

    Christopher M. Hill, VMD, Diplomate ACVS
    ACVS Symposium Equine and Small Animal Proceedings
    October 1, 2001

    CRUCIATE DISEASE – WHAT CAN WE LEARN FROM THE HUMAN LITERATURE

    Christopher M. Hill, VMD, Diplomate ACVS, Mobile Veterinary Surgical Associates, Charleston, South Carolina

    2001 ACVS Veterinary Symposium Small Animal Proceedings

    Keywords: Cruciate disease, non-operative, surgery, graft, dog, cat, small animal

    The anterior cruciate ligament (analogous to the cranial cruciate ligament in canines) plays several roles in the maintenance of stability and function of the knee. It prevents cranial translation of the tibia, resists excessive internal rotation of the tibia, and prevents hyperextension of the knee. It also acts as a secondary restraint against varus or valgus angulation.

    Cruciate rupture, resulting in abnormal anterior-posterior movement of the tibia, was first described in humans in the mid-1800’s. Treatment at that time consisted of immobilization with a removable splint and application of cold water to reduce inflammation. In the early 1900’s operative treatment began to gain popularity with various extra-articular and intra-articular techniques being tried out in humans and, experimentally, in dogs. Most of these procedures utilized fascia lata grafts, patellar tendon grafts, or silk suture to appose the torn ligament. Beginning in the 1940’s the tendon of insertion of the semitendinosus and gracilis muscles were also used as intra-articular grafts. In 1976 Feagin and Curl published follow-up of West Point cadets who had cruciate repair during their college years. The availability of complete military medical records provided an unprecedented accurate follow-up of the surgical procedures. The disappointing news was that a large percentage of the repairs were unsuccessful. Since then surgeons have been refining the various techniques by identifying the most isometric placement of the grafts, using tissues of high strength and stiffness and minimizing operative morbidity via the use of arthroscopes and early rehabilitation.

    The goals of surgical reconstruction are to stabilize the knee, return the patient to pre-injury activity level, and prevent the progression of osteoarthritis. So far no procedure has reliably produced these results, consequently there is much controversy regarding the best way to reconstruct the cruciate deficient knee. Clinical studies in humans have shown that simple suturing of the acutely torn ligament produces a similar outcome as non-operative treatment

    Grafts can be autogenous tissue, synthetic prostheses, or allografts. Each has its advantages and disadvantages, and none are an ideal substitute for the cruciate ligament. Placement of the graft can be either extra-articular, intra-articular, or a combination of the two.

    The concept of muscle transfers to “dynamically stabilize” the knee has never been validated scientifically and it is thought that the speed with which injury occurs is much faster than any reflex arc that may attempt to protect the knee via muscle contraction.

    Extra-articular Repairs

    Most extra-articular repairs create a restraining band on the lateral side of the knee extending from the lateral femoral condyle to Gerdy tubercle on the tibia, in a line parallel to the cranial cruciate ligament. This type of repair was commonplace in humans during the 1970’s and 1980’s. Kinematic studies to determine the optimal attachment points in humans found the best femoral attachment to be just proximal to the lateral collateral ligament and the best tibial attachment to be on the anteriolateral aspect, just at or in front of the Gerdy tubercle. These studies also showed that the stress exerted on the reconstruction depended mostly on the location of the femoral attachment and much less so on the tibial attachment. Extra-articular repairs have the advantage of providing good blood supply to the grafted tissue, thus minimizing the chance of necrosis and failure. Outcome of one series of extra-articular repairs performed in humans in 1985 showed 35% excellent, 43% good, 13% fair and 9% poor. The good/excellent group had a mean follow-up period of 4.4 years and the fair/poor group had a mean follow-up period of 6.7 years, which suggests there may be stretching and deterioration of the repair with time.

    Intra-articular Repairs Using an Autograft

    Intra-articular repairs are the current “gold standard” for reconstruction of the human knee. Although both allografts and autografts are commonly used, autografts seem to have gained wider acceptance. Two of the most commonly used autografts are bone-patellar tendon-bone and semitendinosus-gracilis tendon constructs. A major advantage of using the patellar tendon is that it provides the immediate stability of bone to bone fixation which allows rapid rehabilitation and immediate full weight-bearing. Disadvantages of the patellar tendon graft are weakening of the quadriceps muscle, patellofemoral pain, and occasionally, rupture of the remaining patellar tendon. Studies in dogs, goats and rabbits have shown harvesting the central third of the patellar tendon will significantly decrease the strength and stiffness of the remaining tendon even in the long term. The semitendinosus-gracilis graft is technically easier to harvest and is associated with less operative dissection and post-operative morbidity. Follow-up studies of hamstring strength have shown no significant decrease at 2 years after surgery. Initially there were concerns that the time required for the tendon to heal to bone might prolong the post-operative rehabilitation period. This has since been proven untrue. Studies directly comparing the two techniques have shown no difference in either functional outcome or laxity on instrumented testing even when immediate full weight-bearing and full range of motion exercises were performed. There are numerous minor variations of these two intra-articular grafting techniques, however almost all studies in human patients report 85-90% excellent/good results and 10-15% fair/poor results.

    All autogenous grafts undergo the process of necrosis, revascularization, and maturation. Experimental studies have shown patellar tendon grafts become enveloped by a highly vascular synovial-like tissue during the first 4-6 weeks, while the core undergoes ischemic necrosis. By 20 weeks revascularization and repopulation of the entire graft with new cells takes place, although the process of remodeling goes on longer. Concomitant with the revascularization, numerous morphologic, biochemical, and biomechanical changes take place involving changes in cell morphology, collagen cross-linking patterns and glycosaminoglycan content. The bone-patellar tendon-bone and semitendinosus-gracilis tendon grafts have an initial strength superior to that of a normal ACL in humans, however they both undergo an initial significant decrease in strength followed by a gradual increase as remodeling takes place. The mature graft never attains 100% of its initial strength. Experimental studies in monkies and goats have shown that one year after reconstruction the strength and stiffness of the graft is only 30% to 50% of the normal cruciate ligament.

    Intra-articular Repairs Using an Allograft

    Bone-patellar tendon-bone, Achilles tendon, and fascia lata are the most commonly used allografts in humans. The major advantages are no donor site morbidity for the recipient, various sizes to choose from, and since there is no need to do any type of antigenic matching between donor and recipient, an ample supply is available. A potential disadvantage is the time required for graft incorporation. Canine studies have shown allografts become incorporated in a manner similar to that of an autograft, however it occurs at a slower rate. During this time the graft is vulnerable to failure if too much stress is placed on it, consequently rehabilitation takes longer. Potential for disease transmission is a major disadvantage of using allografts.

    There are three different methods to process and preserve bone and soft-tissue allografts: deep freezing (-70° C), freeze drying, and cryopreservation. Deep freezing is an excellent preservation technique that decreases antigenicity of the graft and maintains structural integrity. This is the preferred method for cruciate ligament grafts. The majority of allograft tissue is collected under aseptic conditions and undergoes repeated bacterial and fungal culturing episodes in order to ensure sterility. Because of the risk of viral transmission some sort of secondary sterilization procedure is usually performed. Ethylene oxide and gamma radiation are two of the most commonly used methods. Ethylene oxide has been associated with reactive synovial and bony changes after graft implantation and has been shown to be ineffective in eradicating feline leukemia virus from feline bone. For these reasons it is not recommended for virus sterilization of biologic tissues. The American Association of Tissue Banks recommended irradiation dosage is between 1.5 and 2.5 Mrads, although some spore forming organisms and certain viruses, such as HIV, are not inactivated by this dose. Some studies have suggested that approximately 3.6 Mrad is needed to inactivate HIV in bone, however, there is a significant, and dose-dependent deterioration of the mechanical properties of tissues sterilized above 2.0 Mrads. Studies using goat patellar ligament showed that 3.0 Mrads of irradiation decreased force to maximum failure by 27%. Gamma irradiation also affects the strength of the graft after incorporation in the host body. In a goat model it was found that 4 Mrads decreased graft stiffness by 33% to 40% at 6 months post-op. Compared to control knees, 2.0 Mrads did not significantly decrease any mechanical properties measured 6 months post-operatively.

    There are no studies directly comparing success rates of allograft reconstructions with autograft reconstructions, although they are thought to be similar. A review of the literature shows a good or excellent outcome in 60-90% of human patients receiving bone-patellar tendon-bone allografts.

    Non-operative Treatment

    There is still considerable debate as to whether operative treatment provides superior results to non-operative treatment for anterior cruciate injuries in people. Numerous studies with follow-up periods of 5 years or longer do not support the theory that surgical treatment is the best treatment for restoring knee function. In fact, in 1994 a study examining scintigraphic and radiographic changes in knees managed surgically versus non-surgically found that 5 years after the injury the reconstructed knees showed markedly greater degeneration than those treated non-surgically. Other follow-up studies, in 1996 and 1997, have revealed that 10 years post-operatively reconstructed knees continue to show greater degenerative changes on radiographs than those treated non-surgically. An ongoing study following patients with unstable knees in particular, has confirmed that knees may remain free of degenerative changes despite chronic, abnormal laxity. This study also showed no difference in activity level between patients receiving surgical stabilization and those left unstable.

    Non-operative treatment does not imply no treatment. Successful rehabilitation focuses on strengthening the muscles, improving balance and coordination, and restricting loads put on the knee. Functional bracing and anti-inflammatory therapy are also used in non-operative management of cruciate injuries. Approximately 80-90% of patients treated in this manner will have a satisfactory outcome.

    guest

    Reply

  16. Narda Robinson
    January 7, 2011

    Skeptvet, did I miss this in your article?

    “All of Dr. Dodd’s Cancer Detox Nosodes are FDA registered and approved.”

    From: http://www.holisticvetpetcare.com/cancer_and_autoimmune.htm, under “FACTORS TO CONSIDER ADDITIONALLY IN DEFEATING CANCER IN YOUR ANIMAL: CANCER DETOX NOSODES”

    Reply

    • skeptvet
      January 8, 2011

      This is part of the grey area that is homeopathy regulation. Technically, homeopathic remedies for humans are grandfathered into the food and drug act so that they are “officially” approved. Though there are some limitation on the claims that can be made about them, but it is much more lax than the rules under DSHEA for dietary supplements and herbal remedies. It appears that te FDA has interpreted the law to exclude veterinary use of homeopathic remedies form this grandfathering, so technically they should be treated like any other drugs or biologics. However, as a practical matter the FDA almost never tries to enforce that rule. And, as we see with Dr. Dodd, it doesn’t seem to have much effect even when they do. Still, it might be worth a try to report such violations, and perhaps if enough complaints come in they might act.

      Reply

  17. ellen
    January 7, 2011

    good catch, dr. robinson. 🙂

    dr. dodds makes that claim again here:
    Feline Infectious Peritonitis, Feline Leukemia, Feline, Infectious Anemia, Feline Autoimmune Diseases and other Serious Infections
    http://tinyurl.com/23zlqwp

    “1. Detox Feline Leukemia Viruses Nosode Formula : 12X, 30X, 60X, 100X, 200X, 400X, 600X, 800X, M, 10M, 50M. The 11 bottle set comes with full instructions and all are FDA registered and approved.

    2. Detox Feline Immune Suppressive (FIV or Aids) Viruses Nosode Formula 12X, 30X, 60X, 100X, 200X, 400X, 600X, 800X, M, 10M, 50M. The 11 bottle set comes with full instructions and all are FDA registered and approved.

    3.Detox Feline Infectious Peritonitis Virus Nosode Formula 12X, 30X, 60X, 100X, 200X, 400X, 600X, 800X, M, 10M, 50M. The 11 bottle set comes with full instructions and all are FDA registered and approved. “

    Reply

  18. v.t.
    January 7, 2011

    Did anyone notice the antifungal diet, looks as if she took it straight off Rachel Ray’s evil dog food recipe pages. The protein amounts, vegetable smorgasboard, onion and garlic and extra virgin olive oil are giveaways.

    I’m wondering if in addition to arguing her medical ethics through the courts, if she shouldn’t be required to undergo psychotherapy before allowing her to continue practicing medicine or even consulting. It appears she could be (is?) downright dangerous, to society in general and to pets.

    Reply

  19. Rita
    January 8, 2011

    “arborization of a tree……….” ARBORIZATION OF A TREE? I wouldn’t accept an aspirin from someone with a brain function like that!

    Reply

  20. Narda Robinson
    January 8, 2011

    ““ ‘arborization of a tree……….’ ARBORIZATION OF A TREE? I wouldn’t accept an aspirin from someone with a brain function like that!”

    Trees? Trees are special.

    From the AHVMA 2010 Convention Brochure “We’ll wander among them, learning from story, song, shamanic trance, and facts. Oak, ash, linden, birch, maple, sycamore, beech .. each has a story.”

    This is a description in the brochure of a lecture from last year’s meeting in Kentucky.

    How does entering a shamanic trance better prepare a veterinarian to treat an animal? Is this CE activity protecting consumers? Are the students attending this conference becoming better educated? The reports I received were that the students in the audience were left scratching their heads about the relevancy of tree-hugging to their education as scientifically trained medical professionals.

    http://www.ahvma.org/files/Final%20Program%20to%20printer.pdf

    The holistic groups, including Gloria Dodd, have been defending newly invented and unfounded practices for decades:

    “Gloria Dodds along with others have been organizing to defend the position of holistic medicine (with all it’s (sic) aspects) in California. The more of us in an organized group, perhaps the more political clout we may have.”
    -From an AHVMA Newsletter, September 3, 1982.

    One year later, the 1983 newsletter noted, “Received a letter from Gloria Dodd informing me of the formation of the California Veterinary Holistic Medical Association.”

    And now, we see the new head of AHVMA, Dr. Nancy Scanlan, following in Gloria Dodd’s footsteps by re-creating the California Veterinary Holistic Medical Association as a work-around mechanism to ensure that vets in that state receive CE hours for holistic practices of their choosing toward renewal of their licenses.

    Mounting pressure on public figures seems to be the default approach from the holistic camp, given that they often don’t have science in their corner. From another Gloria Dodd moment as recent as 2003:

    “We need to do something folks, and that is change the law. You know that means literally an act of congress at the national level because this is a Federal Act. Congress is in recess this month and won’t be back until Sept. so that gives us time to mount a massive letter writing to your representatives and senators in congress, as professionals and any animal owner you know of who has suffered vaccinosis in their animals. Contact the media (TV, Radio and newspapers). Also write Congressman Dan Burton (Indiana) who chairs the committee on Human Rights and Health. His grandson suffers from vaccinosis. I think he will be a sympathetic ally.”

    http://www.cavm.net/Files/Dodd.pdf

    Reply

  21. ellen
    January 8, 2011

    dr. robinson said: “Trees? Trees are special.” ;D

    tree hugger
    http://tinyurl.com/299plwt

    canine version
    http://tinyurl.com/2d8eeyb

    Reply

  22. ellen
    January 8, 2011

    v.t. said: “Did anyone notice the antifungal diet, looks as if she took it straight off Rachel Ray’s evil dog food recipe pages.”

    as a veterinarian, you would think that dr. dodd would know better than to post a recipe (http://www.holisticvetpetcare.com/mycotic.htm) that isn’t nutritionally balanced and includes onions, which are toxic to dogs and cats.

    as for rachel ray’s “pet-friendly” recipes (http://tinyurl.com/3x7o2z9), they don’t even include a calcium source! at the very least she should have a board-certified veterinary nutritionist evaluate these homemade recipes to make sure they’re complete and balanced before publishing them on the web. it’s irresponsible.

    Reply

  23. Narda Robinson
    January 8, 2011

    I agree with you, Skeptvet, that the FDA Center for Veterinary Medicine would likely regard these as unapproved new animal drugs, since they did not adopt the DSHEA guidelines like the human counterpart did.

    Here is a paper on “The Current Regulatory Status of Veterinary Homeopathic Drugs in the United States” by Joerg Zimmer and Mark Land. Available at:

    http://www.homeopathicpharmacy.org/pdf/articles/vet_drugs.pdf

    There is no date or other identifying information on the paper. They do, however, state this in the paper:

    “No homeopathic drugs for veterinary use are approved under existing veterinary
    drug regulations. FDA has communicated to the industry that it believes
    homeopathic drug products for veterinary use which lack approved new animal
    drug applications are misbranded drugs and subject to further action, including
    recall. It is FDA’s position that over-the-counter veterinary “homeopathic”
    products making significant drug claims are to be regulated and held to the same
    scientific standards of safety and efficacy as any veterinary drug. In addition,
    FDA has communicated to the industry that the parenteral route of administration
    of any drug product without established therapeutic benefit would place an animal
    at unnecessary risk, regardless of whether or not the product is administered by
    or on the order of a veterinarian. Consequently, when promotional materials are
    established as labeling, the products may be considered unapproved new animal
    drugs which are adulterated under section 501(a)(5) of the act.
    Equally important, a number of liability insurance carriers have considered that
    they will not provide products liability coverage to a manufacturer and/or
    distributor who promotes a product for an unapproved use.”

    Furthermore, because nosodes are derived from diseased tissues, I’m curious how one produces a cancer nosode safely without seeding a tumor into the recipient, or a viral nosode without contaminating the recipient:

    Dodd recommends, among other things: “4. Cancer Detox Nosodes: It is necessary to order the full Kuff series of the 11 potencies: 15X, 30X, 60X, 100X, 200X, 400X, 600X, 800X, M, 10M, 50M All come with detailed instructions. Be sure the cancer has been identified to type:

    1. Adenocarcinoma Kuff series
    2. Hemangiosarcoma Kuff series
    3. Lymphosarcoma Kuff series
    4. Feline Leukemia Viruses Nosode
    5. Feline Immune Suppressive (AIDS) Viruses Nosode”

    From http://www.holisticvetpetcare.com/cancer_and_autoimmune.htm

    Reply

  24. ellen
    January 8, 2011

    skeptvet said: “Still, it might be worth a try to report such violations, and perhaps if enough complaints come in they might act.”

    great idea. how does one go about doing that?

    Reply

    • skeptvet
      January 8, 2011

      The FDA has a web-based process for complaints here: http://www.fda.gov/Safety/ReportaProblem/ucm059315.htm

      Quackwatch also offers some contact information for reporting fraudulent medical claims: http://www.quackwatch.org/02ConsumerProtection/complain.html

      I have found that a written letter often gets taken more seriously than an electronic report. I would include printouts and links to the relevant web pages as well as a copy of the original warning letter from the FDA, which is available at the link in my post.

      I have spoken with FDA representatives at meetings, and they have very candidly informed me that they have inadequate resources to address the widespread violation of theri regulations on the internet, and they tend to focus in the veterinary area of concerns about the effect of drugs under their jurisdiction on humans or the human food supply. But the fact that they issued the original warning indicates that at least sometimes they are able to take some action on egregious violations.

      Reply

  25. art malernee dvm
    January 8, 2011

    great idea. how does one go about doing that?>>>> If your married first thing is to get his or her ok to do it.
    art malernee dvm
    fla lic 1820

    Reply

  26. ellen
    January 8, 2011

    dr. malernee said: “If your married first thing is to get his or her ok to do it.”

    LOL! what does one’s marital status (or domestic partnership) have to do with filing a complaint?

    Reply

  27. ellen
    January 8, 2011

    dr. robinson said: “Furthermore, because nosodes are derived from diseased tissues, I’m curious how one produces a cancer nosode safely without seeding a tumor into the recipient, or a viral nosode without contaminating the recipient.”

    i’ve always wondered about this. years ago, a holistic vet recommended a nosode for my dog. i didn’t buy it (the product or the sales pitch) because i thought if it really did contain biologically active ingredients, it might give my dog the disease it was supposed to prevent.

    Reply

  28. art malernee dvm
    January 8, 2011

    LOL! what does one’s marital status (or domestic partnership) have to do with filing a complaint?>>>> I just “believe” its better to pick your battles together. The owner of quackwatch is requesting funds now to help pay for his lawyer fees. I always wondered what the conversation was like when he told his wife he had to come up with 40 thousand dollars for his efforts to try and fight quackery.
    art malernee dvm
    fla 1820

    Reply

  29. Rita
    January 9, 2011

    It’s the grammar of the tree remark which worries me, not whether trees are a good thing or not: George Orwell points out that this sort of language use (or abuse) (I don’t think “arborization even exists”) is an infallible sign of sloppy thinking, and I try not to let sloppy thinkers anywhere near my animals.

    Reply

  30. ellen
    January 9, 2011

    Rita said: “I don’t think “arborization even exists”

    here’s the definition of “arborization” from the American heritage medical dictionary: 🙂

    ar·bo·ri·za·tion (ärbr–zshn)
    n.
    1. The treelike terminal branching of nerve fibers or blood vessels.
    2. The leaflike pattern formed under certain conditions by a dried smear of cervical mucus.

    Reply

  31. Rita
    January 10, 2011

    Oh, many thanks, I just looked in my OED English etymology. I’d still rather not talk about the treelike branching of trees, though….”arborization of a tree” in Dr. Dodd’s original.

    Reply

  32. Aleja
    October 18, 2011

    PLEASE add a disclaimer under each post in which you reference Gloria Dodd that she and Dr. Jean Dodds, DVM (also of CA) are not the same! I cringe whenever I see the latter assumed to be the former.

    Reply

    • skeptvet
      October 18, 2011

      Yes, I’m sure it is frsutrating to be confused with a veterinarian like Dr. G Dodd. Dr. J. Dodds is pretty well-kown, so I would expect most people in the profession not to make that mistake, but I’ll try to ensure I am clear about which I am referring to.

      Reply

  33. zyrcona
    January 2, 2012

    “She has some background in conventional medicine, which she has rejected as inadequate.”

    Probably it’s more likely she rejected it because it wasn’t a get-rich-quick fix.

    Presumably Dr Gloria Dodd is no relation to Dr W. Jean Dodd, a vet who studies vaccination and proposes a different immunisation schedule based around replacing most of the ‘booster’ shots with titres.

    Reply

  34. Aaron
    July 29, 2012

    Hilarious on both sides of the argument greedy crystal ball gazers or greedy fat cat vets that work for pet food companies. They’re both useless outside of trauma care.

    Reply

  35. pam
    January 2, 2013

    Aaron, I wholeheartedly agree with you. I can’t believe that all of these people have nothing better to do than pick apart Dr. Dodd anyway. I know her, and she’s not crazy. She probably has more education in her little finger than all of them combined. This is typical …. someone proposes ideas that are non-conformist, and out of fear and lack of knowledge the posse starts a witch hunt. By the way, it’s Dr Jean Dodds with an “s” at the end, no relation to Dr Gloria Dodd.

    Reply

  36. linda
    February 8, 2013

    I find this article and comments very interesting. I am not in the health field so my knowledge is limited, so maybe you folks can answer this question. You mention the live nosodes as being dangerous because they are derived from diseased tissues, then explain to me why vaccines are being promoted as safe, yet they contain dangerous ingredients. What is the difference between the two?

    Reply

    • skeptvet
      February 9, 2013

      A nosode would only be dangerous if infectious material remained in the final product. Most homeopathic remedies are diluted well beyond the point where this is possible, but if not diluted sufficiently or correctly, contamination could occur.

      Vaccines are made with a legitimate understanding of how infectious disease biology actually works. Potentially infective organisms are killed, inactivated, or removed from them before they are used, so the chances of their being infectious are very, very small. The differences is simply diluting stuff based on an 18th myth about disease versus preparing a vaccine in a way that removes most of the risk based on actually knowing how these diseases work.

      Reply

  37. MK James
    April 21, 2015

    I for one used Dr. Gloria Dodd years ago, and, had great outcomes (yes, more than once) when typical allopathic means bore no good results.
    I use holistic and conventional means of healing for my pets, depending on the circumstances.
    Energetic medicine is a new concept in America. Hell, just the term “energy”, can ruffle a lot of feathers and people typically fear and bash what they don’t understand.

    If you’re old enough, you might recall when M.D.s called chiropractors and acupuncturists quacks because what they did wasn’t scientific enough. Wasn’t tangible. Couldn’t be explained. It took about 30 years but now their acceptance is universal.
    Get ready to be ruffled:
    Everything is energy. And get this, despite what some think, even colors have an energy!
    This has been known in other cultures for thousands of years.

    The healing arts are ever evolving. Even Dr. Oz said that he saw the future of medicine moving towards energy.
    The easy way is to sit back on one’s high horse, criticize and judge. Experience is the true teacher. My personal experience with her work was very positive with excellent outcomes.
    My question would be:
    Did you even bother trying energetic medicine with an open mind with Dr. Dodd before you spent so much time and energy verbally assaulting her methods?
    Seems to me that you’d already made up your mind.

    Reply

    • skeptvet
      April 22, 2015

      If you’re old enough, you might recall when M.D.s called chiropractors and acupuncturists quacks because what they did wasn’t scientific enough. Wasn’t tangible. Couldn’t be explained. It took about 30 years but now their acceptance is universal.

      Actually, if you read some of my articles, there is widespread recognition that most claims for chiropractic are false and most of the things they do are quackery. They have some utility for treating low back pain which is about equivalent to standard physical therapy, but “quack” still describes the theory and the majority of the practice. Likewise, the evidence is very strong that acupuncture is an elaborate placebo.

      So you are engaging in pretty flawed reasoning here. You claim that we should take one form of quackery seriously because a couple of things that were once viewed as quackery are now widely accepted. However, apart from the fact that these things are not actually scientifically validated and that popular acceptance isn’t good evidence for effectiveness, even if they were this would have nothing to do with whether or not Dr. Dodd’s bizarre ideas are true. It’s like saying that because people once mocked the idea of a round Earth and now they mock the idea of Alien abduction we should accept the idea of alien abduction as reasonable or even true.

      Everything is energy.

      This is so vague as to be meaningless. People who claim they use “energy” to heal can’t even define or demonstrate that what they use as a healing method even exists. From healing touch to acupuncture to homeopathy, these people expect the rest of us to passively accept their claims without even having to prove the core idea is anything more than a metaphor. Just because you say “Energy is everything” doesn’t mean that something called “energy medicine” works or that the thing you are calling “energy” is even real. You’re making the claim here, so the burden of proof is on you. No one else is obligated to take your word for anything without evidence.

      Did you even bother trying energetic medicine with an open mind with Dr. Dodd before you spent so much time and energy verbally assaulting her methods?
      Seems to me that you’d already made up your mind.

      1. Trying something for oneself is not the way to evaluate a claim about medicine. For one thing, personal experience is deeply unreliable, which is why we have benefited so dramatically from the discovery of the scientific method, which works much better. And secondly, such a strategy would be impractical. I haven’t tried chemotherapy, but I know that some chemotherapy drugs effectively treat or even cure some cancers. I haven’t had a rattlesnake bite, but I would sure want anti-venin rather than Reiki if I got one because there is evidence that anti-venin works, and Reiki is based entirely on blind faith.

      2. Since when is saying that a claim makes little sense and has no evidence to support it “verbal assault?” Why would you think it ok for anyone to claim anything they like, even with no evidence that it is true, yet feel offended by someone challenging that claim? If I claim that I am the reincarnation of Socrates and you suggest that is unlikely and ask me to prove it, is that unfair/ Is that “assault?” It seems you just don’t like someone criticizing something you believe in, but that doesn’t entitle you to be free from all criticism.

      3. I have made up my mind, after thoughtful reflection and investigation. The fact that I have a different opinion than you do doesn’t mean my opinion was based on any less open-minded or thoughtful a process of reasoning than yours. In fact, since I have based my judgment on science and you on personal experience, I would suggest that you are the one allowing personal bias to form your opinion rather than being open to the possibility that things may not be as they appear on the surface.

      Reply

  38. Rich Bennett DVM
    June 5, 2015

    It appears the VMB filed a motion to revoke the probation in January 2013 (http://www.vmb.ca.gov/public/vet3086_2013_28_01_acc.pdf), but Dr Dodd passed away sometime in 2013 (http://www.holisticvetpetcare.net/Gloria_Dodd_Memorial.htm).

    Her husband appears to be carrying on the business (Everett E Dodd PhD). [http://www.bbb.org/greater-san-francisco/business-reviews/services-general/everglo-natural-veterinary-services-in-gualala-ca-182977]

    Reply

  39. boxer
    March 9, 2016

    ” Scientific truth may not be a popularity contest, but of course in a democracy government largely is.” – Wise words!

    Reply

  40. Debbie Viess
    July 18, 2022

    I recently read this article with great interest. I had the misfortune of actually working for Gloria Dodd as a tech, waaaaaay back in 1984! I was in process of applying to UC Davis vet school, and was already working in various Bay Area clinics. I kept seeing her ads for techs in a vet tech journal, and I was curious about just how this so called alternate veterinary medicine worked, so I applied. The fact that those ads ran EVERY MONTH (in one woman practise) should have been my first clue to run for the hills! Heck, I must’ve even been tuned into the spiritual “helping cosmos” myself, since not only did I have a very strong dream warning me away, but for the first time ever, my car ran out of gas on the way to that first interview! Thanks cosmos, and sorry I didn’t listen to you!

    I only worked there for a couple of months, and was never able to judge how her weird (pendulums, crystals, remote diagnosis, homeopathy, etc..) methodology worked. She created her very expensive homeopathic remedies with a machine first designed by Tesla, the physicist. I was familiar with Tesla’s pioneering work since my former geek boyfriend had worked up at the Lawrence Berkeley Lab, and he was a fan (of Tesla the scientist, not Dodd). This machine supposedly took the “energetics” of a known sample and transfered it to plain water, eliminating the tedious steps of more normal dilutions. I was trained to test that it “worked” with a pendulum. Homeopathic remedies like these, measured by drops, were not all that the owners needed to apply; they were told to force-feed their dogs quarts of water, too! This was, as you can imagine, distressful to both dogs and owners. When the owners complained, Dodd would yell at them! So, I saw no mircale cures, and quite a few disgruntled customers.

    I was, however, perfectly able to judge her “traditional” medicine, which was neglectful and downright dangerous.

    The stories I could tell!

    Desperate people are gullible, and Dodd was a predator. She might have had a nice smile, but her actions belied it. Not to speak ill of the dead, but the world is a better place without her in it.

    Reply

  41. Esther ruban
    July 27, 2022

    I believe in conventional and some holistic approaches to pet care. There are too many conventional vets that do not take the time to find a safer approach to treatment and too quick to just prescribe antibiotics, steroids and over vaccinate when titers are a proven method to immunity.
    I had a hair analysis done on my shepherd the I lost very suddenly, she had toxic levels of metals, all I attributed to the inferior fish products in her “high quality food”. Through holistic Chinese herbs, we were able to start getting these levels down, but it was too late for her. My traditional vet just missed all the signs. Although the holistic vet also failed her and missed signs of her actual problem. So, blame can be had on both sides of the coin.
    Reading some of this “quackery” yes, there is some. But we as pet parents need to do more to advocate for our pets and understand the good with the bad, and yes, recognize when it is quackery.
    There are many human labs that do and rely on hair analysis, so I do not put this in the quackery category.
    I happened on some of these articles in research for my own blog on caring for our pets and conventional with alternative methods. Blog not yet online.

    Reply

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Back to top
mobile desktop