22 responses

  1. Jennifer Robinson
    September 1, 2014

    A blogger I sometimes read makes some strong claims that Cox-1 NSAIDs (like Ibuprofen) are not greatly different than Cox-1 NSAIDs (like Carprophen) . .. and that Rimdyl is a money gouging racket on the part of big pharma. See, eg.: http://terriermandotcom.blogspot.com/2008/05/rimadyl-relief-for-swollen-wallet.html

    a brief quote: “What’s the difference between a Cox-1 and a Cox-2 drug? In the real world, not a damn thing unless you are taking the drug daily and for a very long period of time (i.e., more than 3 weeks of daily dosing). …Cox-2 drugs, such as Rimadyl, have NOT been shown to be more effective at alleviating pain than Cox-1 drugs such as Aspirin and Ibuprofen. …So, to put a point on it, almost all Rimadyl sales by veterinarians for short-term use are a rip-off; you could be using buffered children’s Apirin or a low-dosage of Ibuprofen for a lot less money.”

    How skeptical should I be of this other skeptic?

    Reply

    • skeptvet
      September 2, 2014

      There is a LOT of reason to be skeptical of this advice. There is no question that the safety of more COX-2 selective drugs was overhyped when they were introduced, and they have risks like any other NSAID (or any other therapy that does anything, for that matter). But there is good evidence that they are safer and more effective that COX-1 selective drugs or non-selective NSAIDS like aspirin. Here are some examples of the evidence concerning this:

      J Vet Intern Med. 1999 Sep-Oct;13(5):472-7.

      The gastroduodenal effects of buffered aspirin, carprofen, and etodolac in healthy dogs.

      Reimer ME1, Johnston SA, Leib MS, Duncan RB Jr, Reimer DC, Marini M, Gimbert K.

      Author information

      Abstract

      Twenty-four healthy mixed-breed dogs were divided into 4 groups. Group 1 received a placebo p.o. q12h, group 2 received an average of 16.5 (15.1-17.8) mg/kg buffered aspirin p.o. q12h, group 3 received an average of 2.2 (2.0-2.4) mg/kg carprofen p.o. q12h, and group 4 received an average of 12.8 (11.7-13.8) mg/kg etodolac p.o. q24h (with a placebo in the PM). All treatments continued for 28 consecutive days. Gastroduodenal endoscopy was performed on days -9, 0, 5, 14, and 28. Multiple gastric biopsies were obtained endoscopically on day -9 to determine each dog’s Helicobacter infection status. Four regions in the stomach and 1 region in the proximal duodenum were evaluated endoscopically, and each was assigned a score from 1 to 11. Scores for each region then were summed to give a total score for each endoscopic evaluation. Erosions and submucosal hemorrhages were seen in all dogs receiving aspirin. Only minor gastric lesions were observed in the carprofen, etodolac, and control groups. No adverse clinical signs were noted in any dog given any treatment. Median total score on days 0, 5, 14, and 28, respectively, were as follows: group 1: 5.0, 5.0, 5.0, 5.0; group 2: 5.0, 27.0, 26.0, 27.5; group 3: 5.0, 5.0, 6.0, 5.0, group 4: 5.0, 7.0, 5.0, 5.0. There was no significant difference among dogs receiving carprofen, etodolac, or placebo. The administration of carprofen, etodolac, or placebo to healthy dogs resulted in significantly less gastroduodenal lesion development than in dogs receiving buffered aspirin.

      Semin Arthritis Rheum. 1997 Jun;26(6 Suppl 1):21-7.

      Meloxicam: selective COX-2 inhibition in clinical practice.

      Furst DE.

      Author information

      Abstract

      Nonsteroidal antiinflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) exert their actions by inhibiting cyclooxygenase (COX). It has recently been postulated that NSAIDs’ antiinflammatory efficacy arises from inhibition of the COX-2 isoform of cyclooxygenase, whereas inhibition of the COX-1 isoform produces the troublesome and sometimes serious gastric and renal side effects of NSAIDs. A relatively selective COX-2 inhibitor, such as meloxicam, may combine antiinflammatory efficacy with improved tolerability. In volunteers, indomethacin 75 mg, but not meloxicam 7.5 mg, inhibited renal prostaglandin E2 excretion and platelet aggregation (COX-1 mediated effects). Double-blind, randomized trials in osteoarthritis and rheumatoid arthritis patients have shown equivalent antiinflammatory efficacy among meloxicam 7.5 mg or 15 mg and diclofenac 100 mg, naproxen 750 mg, and piroxicam 20 mg. In a double-blind, placebo-controlled trial, meloxicam (7.5 or 15 mg) caused less endoscopically detected gastrointestinal (GI) damage (Lanza scale) than piroxicam 20 mg. The MELISSA study, a double-blind, randomized, 28-day trial in over 9,000 patients showed that meloxicam 7.5 mg caused statistically less total GI toxicity, dyspepsia, abdominal pain, nausea and vomiting, and diarrhea than diclofenac 100 mg, despite equivalent reductions in pain on movement for each treatment. A global safety analysis of clinical trials, representing over 5,600 patients and comprising 170 and 1,100 patient-years of exposure for meloxicam 7.5 mg and 15 mg, respectively, showed that meloxicam caused less GI toxicity and fewer peptic ulcers and GI bleeds than naproxen, diclofenac, or piroxicam. The renal safety profile and incidence of liver function abnormalities with meloxicam is equivalent to other NSAIDs available for clinical use. In conclusion, relatively selective COX-2 inhibition exemplified by meloxicam may offer effective symptom relief with an improved GI tolerability profile.

      NSAID Mechanisms of Action

      Cyclooxygenase 1 (COX-1) is constitutively expressed in many tissues and generates protective prostaglandins in the stomach, intestine, and kidney. COX-1 also generates thromboxane (TXA2), which mediates platelet aggregation. Cyclooxygenase 2 (COX-2) is induced by inflammation and generates proinflammatory prostaglandins. However, COX-2 also generates protective renal prostaglandins and is important for the healing of gastric ulcers once they occur. NSAIDs are antiinflammatory, antipyretic, and analgesic via COX-2 inhibition and have antiplatelet activity via COX-1 inhibition. For clinical decision-making, NSAIDs can be divided into three major groups: classical nonselective agents, newer COX-2 preferential drugs, and even newer COX-2 selective coxibs.

      Nonselective NSAIDs

      Aspirin
      Both COX-1 and COX-2

      Low doses selectively inhibit platelet function (0.5–1 mg/kg q 12 h)
      May be useful for prothrombotic states (hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, protein-losing nephropathy)
      GI upset and bleeding at higher dosages

      Ketoprofen
      Both COX-1 and COX-2

      Short-term analgesia
      Has been associated with bleeding and azotemia
      There are safer agents

      Piroxicam
      Both COX-1 and COX-2

      Effective to slow growth of transitional cell, nasal, and colon carcinomas in dogs and cats
      Avoid if coagulopathy present

      COX-2 preferential agents

      Carprofen (Rimadyl)
      COX-2 > COX-1

      Good pain control with minimal risk of bleeding
      Risk of renal decompensation remains
      Rare risk of idiosyncratic hepatic necrosis

      Meloxicam (Metacam)
      COX-2 > COX-1

      Good pain control with minimal risk of bleeding
      Risk of renal decompensation remains
      Acute renal failure with chronic dosing at label dose in cats

      Etodolac (EtoGesic)
      COX-2 > COX-1

      Excessive bleeding in dogs during experimental surgery (EtoGesic label)
      Fall in serum T4 in dogs with orthopedic disease, sometimes into the hypothyroid range (Ness 2003)

      COX-2 selective agents

      Deracoxib (Deramaxx)
      Firocoxib (Previcox)
      COX-2 >>> COX-1

      Apparent low risk of new GI ulceration
      Can impair healing of preexisting ulcers
      Minimal risk of bleeding
      Risk of renal decompensation remains

      Other NSAIDs

      Tepoxalin (Zubrin)
      Both COX-1 and COX-2

      Safer than coxibs for dogs with preexisting ulcers? Also inhibits 5-lipoxygenase
      Unfortunately, manufacture has been stopped

      Acetaminophen
      Weak, reversible COX inhibition

      No significant antiinflammatory effects
      Antipyretic or analgesic in dogs intolerant of NSAIDs (acetaminophen 10-15 mg/kg q 8 h)

      GI Toxicity of Available NSAIDs

      Vomiting and diarrhea are common early side effects, due to direct gastric and duodenal irritation. NSAIDs directly alter phospholipids in the mucus gel layer overlying the gastric mucosa and can damage this hydrophobic barrier (this is the rationale for enteric-coated aspirin). Gastric ulceration, which is more serious, results from inhibition of PGE2 generation. PGE2 is important for maintenance of healthy gastric mucosa (epithelial turnover, mucus and bicarbonate secretion).

      It is difficult to directly compare the relative GI toxicity of veterinary NSAIDs; most published studies using the gold standard (endoscopy) enrol relatively few dogs, and they are usually young and healthy. This may not translate to GI risk in geriatric or critically ill patients. We do know that there is a lower risk of GI upset and ulceration with COX-2 preferential compared to nonselective agents. For example, carprofen and etodolac lead to less GI ulceration than aspirin in dogs (Reimer 1999), and carprofen is associated with fewer and milder gastric lesions compared to ketoprofen in dogs (Forsyth 1998).
      Renal Decompensation

      Any NSAID can adversely affect renal function. Prostaglandins increase renal arterial blood flow in response to a drop in renal perfusion, and stimulate renin release. Both COX-1 and COX-2 generate protective renal prostaglandins, and COX-2 selective agents can drop glomerular filtration to the same extent as classical NSAIDs. The risk of renal decompensation from NSAIDs is greatest with preexisting renal disease, hypovolemia or dehydration, congestive heart failure, sodium restriction, or cirrhosis.

      Most studies of renal function with NSAIDs have been done in healthy animals undergoing elective procedures. Carprofen at the label dose showed no adverse effect on glomerular filtration rate (GFR) in one study; however, in another study, carprofen and ketoprofen both led to a decrease in GFR in dogs undergoing castration (Forsyth 2000). In addition, ketoprofen has been associated with transient azotemia, even in healthy dogs being spayed (Lobetti 2000).

      Meloxicam has no adverse effects on GFR in healthy euvolemic cats (Goodman 2009), and, unlike other NSAIDs, clearance of meloxicam in cats is not slower than in dogs. However, meloxicam has been associated with acute renal failure and death in client-owned cats given the label dose (0.3 mg/kg SC) chronically. Lower daily dosages (0.01–0.03 mg/kg daily) were well tolerated in 46 geriatric cats with osteoarthritis, but renal function was not consistently monitored (Gunew 2008). Older cats with IRIS stage 1–2 renal disease, treated with meloxicam at a median dose of 0.02 mg/kg/day, did not show clinical evidence of renal decompensation when followed for at least 6 months (Gowan 2011).
      Platelet Dysfunction and Bleeding

      Classical NSAIDs (aspirin, ketoprofen, piroxicam) inhibit platelet function most readily, via inhibition of COX-1 mediated TXA2 generation. Prolonged bleeding times were reported with ketoprofen in dogs undergoing elective orthopedic surgery (Grisneaux 1999); one ketoprofen-treated dog developed a hematoma at the surgical site. COX-2 preferential agents have less platelet inhibitory effects; while carprofen leads to mild subclinical decreases in platelet aggregation, neither carprofen nor meloxicam prolong buccal mucosal bleeding times in healthy dogs. However, etodolac has been associated with excessive bleeding in dogs during experimental surgery (Etodolac label). COX-2 selective coxibs do not affect buccal mucosal bleeding time in dogs (Deramaxx label; Steagall 2007), and coxibs are probably the safest NSAIDs in dogs with preexisting coagulopathies (e.g., von Willebrand’s disease).

      Coxibs and Hypercoagulable Patients

      Conversely, coxibs may be a poor choice in hypercoagulable patients (protein-losing nephropathy, immune-mediated hemolytic anemia, vasculitis, Cushing’s). Unopposed activity of COX-1 may lead to platelet overreactivity and impaired small vessel dilatation, resulting in thrombosis in at-risk patients. I would avoid coxibs in these patients until more is known.

      Reply

  2. Nicole
    October 12, 2015

    Thank you for this. I have a young Staffordshire mix who had CCL surgery last year and, while X-rays after the surgery showed it healed well, recently she’s had increased stiffness and on-again, off-again lameness in the knee that was operated on. I’ve asked my vet about long-term NSAIDs, as I think my pooch is developing arthritis in the knee (she’s not overweight, FWIW), but the vet objects because the dog is young and keeps suggesting glucosamine. I argued that there isn’t good proof glucosamine does anything (thanks to this site), and she agreed, but said at least it has no side effects. Sigh. So I think she’s reluctant because she thinks there’s a high risk of liver or renal damage with long-term usage. I will likely send her a link to this entry next time I make my plea.

    Reply

  3. Mag
    October 21, 2015

    Nicole,
    I am reading this because, at 13, my lab/chow mix finally has begun needing to take Rimadyl. This “athlete” dog has had both CCL repaired (one at 2 1/2, one at 8) and has torn his right Achilles. Until a few months ago, he did extremely well on glucosamine chondroitin, 12oo mg of fish oil and 1/8 tsp of MSM daily. It is well worth trying for your dog. Fish oil at high doses is an anti inflammatory. It is well studied in humans and I upped my and my dogs dose after a talk by a Graves Disease researcher recommended that and I was able to stop taking Celebrex myself.
    My beagle has ankle issues that also resolved with these supplements. When other issues prevented him from taking them, he began limping again a
    nd it went away when he resumed. Study with N=1, but again, worth a try.
    I am not against using prescription meds (my beagle is doing very well on oral chemo for a lymphoma) but if you can postpone the NSAIDs, do.

    Reply

    • skeptvet
      October 22, 2015

      I would make the case in the opposite direction. There is some evidence to support fish oil, though glucosamine almost certainly does nothing, but I am not against using these supplements, however there is no reason to postpone NSAIDs. Doing so only subjects pets to unnecessary discomfort.

      Reply

  4. R
    October 25, 2015

    What is your opinion on tramadol (prn) for pain, my 15 year old small breed is cranky, irritable and has some spinal degenerative issues. The tramadol, in low doses, especially at bedtime (he sleeps through the night) seems to work.
    I want to keep him comfortable. TIA

    Reply

  5. R
    October 25, 2015

    He is just old, I took him in for a geriatric workup and his lab work is better than mine, lol. In his case it seems to be effective. Thanks for your response.

    PS: Most vets won’t prescribe anything stronger (outpatient setting), I found that out with my dog that had terminal cancer.

    Reply

  6. Ron
    February 22, 2017

    “The clinical literature is mixed, but generally tramadol doesn’t seem like the best pain reliever.”

    I would have to concur, my dog was put on tramadol prescribed by a MS Vet. surgeon.
    I was not impressed, he was also Gabapentin, it may have helped some, but not enough.

    Reply

  7. Ron
    February 22, 2017

    I have read that quite a few Vets. strongly recommend blood work before starting on these meds. I don’t see that you recommend that in your writings, unless I missed it.
    I think you mentioned above that it can only effect liver values if there are pre-existing problems. There seems to be some studies that it can, I believe it even states that on the FDA website, if I am not mistaken. Also there seems to be some evidence if you aware that in Labradors , the often prescribed drug Rimadyl , may be a problem.

    Now here is a Vet, you might consider him a quack also, but I have never had a Vet in all the years, admit this. All the conventional Vets I have experience with never have, to this point. Most want you to think its as safe as taking a lifesaver.
    https://www.vetinfo.com/drimdyl.html
    “Almost every medication that is used in veterinary medicine has the potential to cause side effects. Many of them have the potential to cause death as a side effect. The list of these medications is very long. Antibiotics often have the potential to cause injury or death. Vaccinations occasionally cause sickness or death. Anesthesia will occasionally cause serious problems, including death. Non-steroidal anti-inflammatory medications can also have detrimental effects. I have treated animals dying from the effects of herbal medications administered at home and have heard unconfirmed reports, similar to much of the information on the Senior Dog site, of problems associated with the use of injectable polyglycosamines, and it seems very likely based on the injection schedule provide that Cartrophen is a polyglycosamine product — although I must emphasize that is just a guess. ” Mike Richards, DVM

    Reply

    • skeptvet
      February 23, 2017

      1. Bloodwork- Yes, it is prudent to run bloodwork before beginning chronic use of any NSAID, and then to followup regularly. In dogs, I typically recommend testing before beginning use and then at 2-4 weeks and annually thereafter, though as always every individual is different and treatment and monitoring have to be adjusted to individual needs and circumstances. Cats and NSAIDs are an entirely different subject.

      2. Idiosyncratic reactions to medications, including NSAIDs (not just Rimadyl but any NSAID) are inherently unpredictable, and pre-use bloodwork does not indicate whether or not such a reaction will occur. Fortunately, these reactions are incredibly rare.

      2. Dr. Richards is quite correct that all medical treatment is about balancing risks and benefits. Any drug can cause unwanted effects and, as I’ve said many times, if it has no possible side effects it isn’t doing anything. I think the paragraph you quote overstates the cae a bit (e.g. antibiotics do not cause serious injury or death “often” but in fact incredibly rarely), but the possibility is there.

      3. You’ve either read only limited parts of my blog or you’ve read it quite selectively. Almost every article about any treatment includes a discussion of the improtance of balancing risks and benefits in the context of the individual case. And I’ve actually gone so far as to coin “McKenzie’s Law, in order to emphasize that any treatment claiming it has no risks is either inert or the proponents are misleading you.

      Reply

  8. Mariah
    September 15, 2017

    I recently started my 15 yr old border collie on galaprant for arthritis causing pain in her left leg. She is 46 lb otherwise excellent health. I only give her 30 mil she is picky on her food now but will eat hamburgers or chicken if I offer it & seems to rest more deeply but not lethargic up for walks & play. But her leg seems weak she will fall sometimes also still in some pain would you suggest upping her dosage. My vet prescribed 60 but the pharmacist questioned that much I am confused what to do? Reading some dogs experiencing Gi symptoms with galaprant. I also give her tumeric in food have for years & kale.

    Reply

    • skeptvet
      September 17, 2017

      Every individual is unique, and it is important to look at all the relevant aspects of your dog’s health an circumstances, so I can’t really give dosing advice online. I would try having a detailed discussion with your vet about your concerns an options, or consider a second opinion from another vet in your area.

      Good luck!

      Reply

  9. Kathy
    November 3, 2017

    My 13 year old ShihTzu has suddenly developed arthritis and can hardly walk. Back legs weak and give out. It ha affected front legs also. She was started on Galliprant 2 days ago. No significant change yet. Having a bad night. I was wondering how long it usually takes to show improvement and is it safe for dogs with a congestive heart failure history. She is on Vetmedin, Lasix and enalapril. She has been on these meds for 2.5 years and has been stable other than a cough. She is in pain and I am not sure what to do and what is safe for her. I have a prescription for Hycodan for her cough and was going to try that tonight. It is a narcotic pain med. Any suggestions.

    Reply

  10. Jana Cryan
    November 5, 2017

    My Vizsla was just started on Galliprant also. Recently diagnosed with hip dysplasia and severe osteoarthritis. She’s 11 1/2 and very fit. Has never been overweight. Her legs are very weak when she squats to potty. I’m not sure how to tell if she’s better from the medication. She was initially started on Tramadol and Gabapentin then X-rays were done since we saw no change in her. She is able to walk and trot some. She still enjoys a walk. She is slow getting up and it’s clear the squatting is difficult for her. She does not cry or whine. She is tender when her hips are palpated. Our vet is going to review her x-rays with an Orthopedic specialist next week to see if they have any other recommendations.

    Reply

  11. Diane
    June 16, 2018

    My 6.8 lb 9 year old papillon was put on a low dose of Gabapentin 2x a day over a month ago after a biopsy for an oral tumour. Tramadol made her too sleepy. She was also put on Metacam which after a few weeks caused bloody diarrhea. She was then switched to Rimadyl which she has tolerated well for about 3 weeks. (She has had 5 weeks of radiation for the tumour, which has worked well in shrinking the tumour a lot.) unfortunately while all this was going on she tore her Achilles’ tendon. Her leg is in a temporary brace until we can get a permanent one fitted.
    Yesterday she seemed to be not happy, refusing treats, but ate her dinner, so called our vet who said give her Gabapentin every 8 hours instead of 12 hours. So I gave her an extra dose which made her sleepy and wobbly. At 3:30 a.m. she woke up with diarrhea, not bloody, then at 7:00 a.m. A small amount of bloody diarrhea.
    I suspect the Gabapentin caused this because of the extra dose, but maybe it is from Rimadyl ? The vet prescribed Sulcrate, bland diet and probiotics, and said to continue the Rimadyl but stop if diarrhea persists. However I don,t want to give her Rimadyl today, don’t know what to do. I have not given her any Gabapentin either. How to know which caused the problem? She doesn’t seem to be in pain now, but I don’t know for sure.

    Reply

  12. L
    June 17, 2018

    Check with your vet, but I would suspect the Rimadyl may causing the side effects that you described.
    I am not a veterinary healthcare professional.
    I had a similar experience with a senior small breed, he did well on the Rimadyl for couple of months and then all hell broke loose. It took at least a week or two after stopping the Rimadyl for the side effects to stop.
    Some dogs do well on it but others don’t.

    Reply

  13. art malernee dvm
    September 13, 2022

    <<>>>>
    client of mine this morning came in telling me that a vet in his neighborhood gave him some gabapent to try after seeing him walk his fat arthritic dog for pain. I just googled gabapentin and skeptvet and texted him the link. we had already had the glucosamine does not work talk last time he was in. Went into my diatribe wt loss routein, low impact mild exercise and nsaids as top three djd treatments but do not use ibuprofen in dogs. I admitted i could not find any credible evidence not to use ibuprophen except thats what i was told by the experts. we both agreed maybe thats because vets want something to sell. So how about something posted about the harm of ibuprofen in dogs i can copy and paste ? Asprin and acetometaphen are approved for dogs in other countries , how about ibuprofen?

    Reply

  14. Cara
    September 13, 2022

    I don’t know if you ever see the comments made on older posts, like this one – but I’m wondering if you have any opinions on the (I’m told) relatively new NSAID called Galliprant. It’s significantly more expensive than other options, but I’m being told (by a vet we saw for the first time, for a 2nd opinion) that it’s safer. Your thoughts?

    Reply

    • skeptvet
      September 14, 2022

      There is a pretty sound rationale for why grapriprant might be safe than traditional NSAIDs in some situations (mostly in dogs with pre-existing liver and kidney disease). There is also pretty good evidence that it works and is safe, but not a lot of direct comparisons of chronic use between traditional NSAIDs and this class of drugs. I use it in some cases, but I don’t think there is a need to replace existing NSAIDs with grapriprant for most dogs.

      Reply

  15. art malernee dvm
    September 16, 2022

    vin handout on ibuprofen use in dogs usage says if your going to give it to your dog check with your vet for proper dosage but do not use it in the cat.
    https://veterinarypartner.vin.com/default.aspx?pid=19239&id=5276921

    Reply

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